Nim vs Rock - how they are different? - compare

I knew about Nim and then learned about Rock. They seem fairly similar, both transcompile to C.
What are the main differences between them? Which one would you recommend?

There's not much documentation on ooc of which rock is the compiler. Here are the key differences I've found. Disclaimer: i'm a bit biased towards Nim ;).
Metaprogramming. While Nim offers powerful tools to please even the most extreme metaprogrammers, ooc has nothing to do with it.
Domain Specific Language (DSL) friendliness. Nim is better extendable with custom DSLs thanx to its syntax, metaprogramming capabilities and operator overload support.
Nim compiles (and provides decent FFI) to C/C++/Objective-C and JavaScript, while rock compiles to C only.
Nim is actively developed and supported. As of this writing last commit to rock was made half a year ago.
Syntax. That's an obvious one. Nim is somewhere in python+pascal camp. OOC is more of a coffeescript but with curly braces.
There may be more key differences depending on what is important to you, but my overall opinion is that Nim is a much more sophisticated and feature-rich language, with which you're less likely to hit any limitations when writing anything bigger than a couple-of-files project.

Related

C to C++ : Transitioning from one language to the other [duplicate]

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C++ tutorial for experienced C programmer.
I program in a number of languages frequently and have been using C++ lately. Basically my classes are just wrappers around pure C code. Almost like a struct with associated methods. This gives me the encapsulation and privacy that I want for my data. I have a small hierarchy of classes and am just barely using inheritance.
I am familiar with OO concepts and know what search terms to use when i need to find out about a particular concept in this regard. However, as I have discovered in my foray in the programming world, often the language features that are really helpful are hidden to the newcomer or novice, and the useful bits that I need have already been written and are in a library somewhere that is freely available (most times part of the framework - like in .NET).
What path would you suggest to gain this vital knowledge in C++ and stop myself reinventing the wheel (poorly).
This is the wrong way to use C++. You would be better served grabbing a copy of Accelerated C++ and reading it. Yes, it's a beginner book but unless you want to continue treating C++ as just C with objects then you need to focus on how C++ programmers do things instead of just sticking with what you already know. You need to start from the beginning and build a good foundation in C++.
Learn the STL if you're going to really plan to use C++ in the future. Though opinions will vary widely, particularly among the die-hards, I think there is absolutely no problem using C++ as "C with objects."
Boost is also pretty awesome.
EDIT: Note the downvotes already coming in from the die-hards. C++ acolytes really don't like to hear people advocate using the language as "C with objects." I stand by my statement. You can write quite shippable and commercially viable code without going crazy with an RTTI-enabled, templatized, multiply-inherited set of classes. Remember KISS.
Scott Meyers' books are a great place for C programer to begin with C++.
I recommend Thinking In C++ by Bruce Eckle. Normally it's available for free online, or as a book.
I suggest you read the books:
"C++ Coding Standards: 101 Rules, Guidelines and Best Practices" --Sutter & Alexandrescu
"Modern C++ Design: Generic Programming and Design Patterns Applied" --Alexandrescu
And probably anything else by Andrei Alexandrescu that you can get your hands on.
Then, there are a number of design patterns and programming idioms that make it very clear why "C with objects" is extremely reductionist. Just to name a few: RAII (Resource Allocation Is Initialization), PImpl (or Cheshire Cat), Factory functions, Smart Pointers, Singleton, Type Traits, Expression Templates, etc. When you know about these, you are no longer programming in C++, but in ++C (because you get a result that actually reflects the increment over C).
As for not reinventing the wheel, like many have said already, make sure to first explore the possibilities in the Standard Template Library (STL) (which is much richer than you might think) and then look at Boost (www.boost.org) which has libraries for a lot of diverse purposes and they are extremely high quality (and some are just works of art, like Spirit, Proto, Lambda and MPL). After that, there is of course a large amount of open-source software in C++ out there, but use it with caution: sometimes it is better to reinvent a wheel that fits perfectly to your application than to use one that might not be appropriate or powerful enough, or worse, full of bugs!
I suggest the book The C++ Programming Language for filling in the gaps in your basic C++ knowledge, and BOOST as the first place to look for existing libraries supporting your programming.
Have you thought about getting the C++ Primer Plus? It's a really good book.
The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference
Read Meyers for specific tips, but also Stroustrup's Design and Evolution. The latter gets into the motivation as to why C++ is what it is, and very much comes from a "how to improve C" viewpoint.
As for "The C++ Programming Language", 3rd edition is very long. If you can find the 2nd edition, its much more digestible, although of course occasionally out of date (but mostly just less complete).

create my own programming language [duplicate]

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References Needed for Implementing an Interpreter in C/C++
How to create a language these days?
Learning to write a compiler
I know some c++, VERY good at php, pro at css html, okay at javascript. So I was thinking of how was c++ created I mean how can computer understand what codes mean? How can it read... so is it possible I can create my own language and how?
If you're interested in compiler design ("how can computer understand what codes mean"), I highly recommend Dragon Book. I used it while in college and went as far as to create programming language myself.
"Every now and then I feel a temptation to design a programming
language but then I just lie down until it goes away." — L. Peter
Deutsch
EDIT (for those who crave context):
"[L. Peter Deutsch] also wrote the PDP-1 Lisp 1.5 implementation, Basic PDP-1 LISP, 'while still in short pants' between the age of 12-15 years old."
If you want to understand how the computer understands the code, you might want to learn some assembly language. It's a much lower-level language and will give you a better feel for the kinds of simple instructions that really get executed. You should also be able to get a feel for how one implements higher level constructs like loops with only conditional jumps.
For an even lower-level understanding, you'll need to study up on electronics. Digital logic shows you how you can take electronic "gates" and implement a generic CPU that can understand the machine code generated from the assembly language code.
For really-low level stuff, you can study material science which can teach you how to actually make the gates work at an atomic level.
You sound like a resourceful person. You'll want to hunt down books and/or websites on these topics tailored to your level of understanding and that focus on what you're interested in the most. A fairly complete understanding of all of this comes with a BS degree in computer science or computer engineering, but many things are quite understandable to a motivated person in your position.
Yes it's possible to create your own language. Take a look at compiler compilers. Or the source code to some scripting languages if you dare. Some useful tools are yacc and bison and lexx.
Others have mentioned the dragon book. We used a book that I think was called "compiler theory and practice" back in my university days.
It's not necessary to learn assembler to write a language. For example, Javascript runs in something called an interpreter which is an application that executes javascript files. In thise case, the interpreter is usually built into the browser.
The easiest starting program language might be to write a simple text based calculator. i.e. taking a text file, run through it and perform the calculations. You could write that in C++ very easily.
My first language for a college project was a language defined in BNF given to us. We then had to write a parser which parsed it into a tree structure in memory and then into something called 3 address code (which is assembler like). You could quite easily turn 3 address code into either real assembler or write an interpreter for that.
Yup! It's definitely possible. Others have mentioned the Dragon Book, but there is also plenty of information online. llvm, for example, has a tutorial on implementing a programming language: http://llvm.org/docs/tutorial/
I really recommend Programming Language Pragmatics. It's a great book that takes you all the way from what a language is through how compilers work and creating your own. It's a bit more accessible than the Dragon Book and explains how things work before jumping in headfirst.
It is possible. You should learn about compilers and/or interpreters: what they are for and how they are made.
Start learning ASM and reading up on how byte code works and you might have a chance :)
If you know C -- it sounds like you do -- grab a used copy of this ancient book:
http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Take-Charge-Programming-Book-Disk/dp/0078818826
In it there's a chapter where the author creates a "C" interpreter, in C. It's not academically serious like the Dragon book would be, but I remember it being pretty simple, very practical and easy to follow, and since you're just getting started, it would be an awesome introduction to the ideas of a "grammar" for languages, and "tokenizing" a program.
It would be a perfect place for you to start. Also, at $0.01 for a used copy, cheaper than the Dragon Book. ;)
Start with creating a parser. Read up on EBNF grammars. This will answer your question about how the computer can read code. This is a very advanced topic, so don't expect too much of yourself, but have fun. Some resources I've used for this are bison, flex, and PLY.
Yes! Getting interested in compilers was my hook into professional CS (previously I'd been on a route to EE, and only formally switched sides in college), it's a great way to learn a TON about a wide range of computer science topics. You're a bit younger (I was in high school when I started fooling around with parsers and interpreters), but there's a whole lot more information at your fingertips these days.
Start small: Design the tiniest language you can possibly think of -- start with nothing more than a simple math calculator that allows variable assignment and substitution. When you get adventurous, try adding "if" or loops. Forget arcane tools like lex and yacc, try writing a simple recursive descent parser by hand, maybe convert to simple bytecodes and write an interpreter for it (avoid all the hard parts of understanding assembly for a particular machine, register allocation, etc.). You'll learn a tremendous amount just with this project.
Like others, I recommend the Dragon book (1986 edition, I don't like the new one, frankly).
I'll add that for your other projects, I recommending using C or C++, ditch PHP, not because I'm a language bigot, but just because I think that working through the difficulties in C/C++ will teach you a lot more about underlying machine architecture and compiler issues.
(Note: if you were a professional, the advice would be NOT to create a new language. That's almost never the right solution. But as a project for learning and exploration, it's fantastic.)
If you want a really general (but very well written) introduction to this topic -- computing fundamentals -- I highly recommend a book titled Code by Charles Petzold. He explains a number of topics you are interest and from there you can decide what you want to create yourself.
Check out this book,
The Elements of Computing Systems: Building a Modern Computer from First Principles it takes you step by step through several aspects of designing a computer language, a compiler, a vm, the assembler, and the computer. I think this could help you answer some of your questions.

Over the last 7-8 years what are the biggest influences on C++ programming?

I started programming in C++. It was my first language, but I have not used it in many years.
What are the new developments in the C++ world? What are the BIG things - technologies, books, frameworks, libraries, etc?
Over the last 7-8 years what are the biggest influences on C++ programming?
Perhaps we could do one influence per post, and that way we can vote on them.
Boost:
free peer-reviewed portable C++ source libraries.
We emphasize libraries that work well with the C++ Standard Library...
We aim to establish "existing practice" and provide reference implementations so that Boost libraries are suitable for eventual standardization. Ten Boost libraries are included in the C++ Standards Committee's Library Technical Report (TR1) and in the new C++11 Standard. C++11 also includes several more Boost libraries in addition to those from TR1. More Boost libraries are proposed for standardization in C++17...
"Modern C++", STL, template metaprogramming and Generic programming.
(And yes, they're one single answer, because they're pretty closely intertwined and together represent a complete paradigm shift in C++ development. While some of them are older than 8-9 years, it's pretty much in the last years that they've really gained traction and really left "C with classes" in the dust.
C++0x
Modern C++ is not only a OOP language. C++0x (the new standard) will include many new additions. It might take some time before it is applied thoroughly in every IDE/compilers but it will add a lot to an already excellent language.
Here is a list of new features of the new standard: C++0x
**Edit: C++0x is the result of the past 8-9 years (thank you jalf).
Qt is also pretty useful, 'pretty', well-documented, portable, and free (now under LGPL).
Developers who actually understand OO rather than C with Classes.
Though the field is still full of C programmers with think they know C++ (but don't they are just C with Classes people).
Although it started in 1998, but it really got going in the last 7-8 years, the boost libraries have added a huge amount of high quality code, which in many ways has helped keep c++ somewhat up to date with the capabilities of more modern languages.
Good books to help prospective C++ programmers learn how to use the language properly. Effective C++ by Scott Meyers was a massive help for me. There are other threads on C++ books.
Scott Meyers wrote about most important C++ people and the most important C++ books. These all had a major influence on how programmers write C++ today.
Commercially available whole-program and profile-guided optimization from various C++ compilers, notably Intel's and Microsoft's. In particular, cross-module inlining makes it easier to write well-factored code that blazes.
It’s usually not the first language
you learn at college or university
anymore. This makes prospective
learners appreciative of C++ and
eases them into it.
The internet, video editing sites,
and forums that help programmers of
all levels to get help and feedback
in a very timely fashion.
To me, besides the already mentioned boost, TMP, MC++D etc., the shift away from teaching C++ as "C plus some extras" towards "C++ is a very different language that's not to be used like C" is very important. That would make Koenig/Moo "Accelerated C++" is a huge influence, even though it's a beginners book and even though it's a beginners book that has (with only 250 pages) much too steep a learning curve.
Stroustrup had been saying things about a better language hidden within C++ and the need to teach it better, but I never really understood what he meant until, after 10 years of C++ programming and experience in TMP, I read the book and was enlighted. :^> It's not that I learned any new technical facts from the book. It just taught me a better way to look at (and teach) C++.
And, yes, I have been programming different since then.
Over the last 7-8 years what are the biggest influences on C++ programming?
Boost was already mentioned and I second that.
The importance of Boost is not just its efficiency and spectrum, but also the promotion of concept-based methods.
Stepanov's famous statement at http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html
I find OOP philosophically unsound. It claims that everything is an object. Even if it is true it is not very interesting - saying that everything is an object is saying nothing at all.
still holds, the concept of "everything" is still every thing and not "object" - if it was "object", what would "class" then be?
And promoting those concept-based methods is in order, because contrary to common wisdom OOADP is often amazingly concept-less:
OOA is nice for reformulating problems the fancy way but we're not paid for talking fancy but for realizing machine support for workflow concepts users have for their problem domain.
OOD has more value in it if it used as a means to achieve a proper decomposition of large systems and as means to express thinking in patterns (which is quite natural for us), but it is never to be taken as a self purpose. I still recall OO "designs" from ~2000 which were presented with great ado and OO babble and featurism but were not even self-consistent.
The concept behind that method should be finding appropriate and useful abstractions, not finding every possible abstraction. Also in ~2000 I've once seen a (even multi)-inheritance hierarchy of depth 7 from which just one leaf class and its possible descendants would ever be used in the system to be created.
Finally OOP, in the closest sense, naturally tends to create state which is then carefully, and, of course, by more OO, so "More of the Same" (Watzlawick), to be protected against concurrent access. In these situations often the concept needed would be doing something instead ot the OO assembly having something.
C++ coding was 10 years ago, especially due to its "competition" with Java, quite susceptible for the OO odds mentioned, so I think that concept-based methods were a great cure.
Boost libs are role models for successfully applying those methods.

Using VB for Artificial Intelligence

Do you think VB is a good language for AI? I originally did AI using mainly Lisp and C/C++ when performance was needed, but recently have been doing some VB programming.
VB has the following advantages:
1. Good debugger (essential!)
2. Good inspector (watch facility)
3. Easy syntax (Intellisense comparable to structure editors of late 80's Lisp environments).
4. Easy to integrate with 3rd party software.
5. Compiles to fast code (CLR performance pretty good)
6. Fast development.
By the way, thanks for all the useful replies. I've upvoted everyone who contributed.
I would suggest you go with C# rather than VB.Net.
You get all the nice features that you discuss but a better (and more familiar) syntax.
Which VB are you talking about here? If you're talking VB.NET then yes, and no.. I would suggest C# or maybe F#.. F# is a functional language and hence is generally better suited for many of the patterns you'll be dealing with when programming AI. The newer versions of C# also have support for language features such as lambda expressions, anonymous delagates et al which may also benefit you!
When you say AI what do you mean? Its a very broad field. If you're just skimming the basics, like guided search and simple knowledge bases then yea VB .Net may seem beneficial. But the language structure and syntax makes it very inadequate when you start to delve into theorem proving, ILP and other areas of machine learning you'll begin to realize that language like Lisp are still being used today because they provide a more natural syntax for expressing AI concepts.
1, 2, and 3 are all aspects that any sufficiently advanced IDE has, so that's not much of an issue for most languages. As for 4, 5, and 6: Python fits 4 and 6, but not 5, as it is not very fast, though some implementations of Python do have better speed than others, depending on their configuration. (Just mentioning Python because you tagged your question with the python tag.)
If you do plan on using the .NET Framework, though, might I suggest C#? The syntax is similar to that of C and C++ (about as similar as the Java syntax is), so it'll be more familiar to you, and it does exactly the same things that VB does (and has all the same IDE features, as they both use the Visual Studio IDE, though I suppose you could use an alternative IDE if you wished, as the VB and C# compilers actually come with the .NET Framework itself and not with Visual Studio).
VB has the following advantages: [...]
But then you go on and list stuff that most modern implementations of Common Lisp offer, especially the commercial ones.
Have you tried Common Lisp recently? What parts of VB.NET do you miss when you're programming in CL?
It depends what you mean by "AI".
One common meaning is just "leading edge software technology" (e.g. chess playing is as of 2010 no longer consider to be very much about artificial intelligence, just a set of basic supporting techniques, because it's not leading edge any longer). For the leading edge stuff, the language should be chosen to suit the particular technology. Neither VB (various variants) nor C++ are likely to be good candidates then.
On the other hand, one might take AI to mean literally "artifical intelligence", the attempt to create true AI, even if just at the level of worm or housefly intelligence. Then the main stumbling block, as noted by Scott Fahlman very very long ago (eighties? seventies?), is the ability to perform huge set intersections in huge semantic nets very rapidly, in parallel, e.g. for recognition of that dangerous animal. And since current hardware isn't up that (the clock speed doesn't at all compensate for the von Neumann bottleneck), except conceivably stuff used by NSA and suchlike, it's a fight for sheer computing efficiency, which means that C++ could be a good choice for the lower levels.
Cheers & hth.,
– Alf
Doesn't matter what language you code AI in, if that language allows you to do complex mathematics. VB.NET has the same features as C# because it uses the same framework. Accessing those parts of the framework may have different callers.
AI requires a lot of optimizations for memory and trimmed custom functions... Get familiar with Reflection namespace for Un-managed memory callers. Pointers are possible and useful in un-managed memory; VB allows for these also which is what all the C# guys fight about because they don't know how to do it in VB. Memory / Pointer and Disc allocation is located in the Marshall Class which is an Interop Service.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/system.runtime.interopservices.marshal%28v=vs.100%29.aspx
Anyone that tells you, C++ is the only way to go doesn't understand programming or is simply a bigot that believes C++ is the only language in the world.
AI is typically defined by math delegates that are functional representations of an action; therefore if your mathematics is no good; your code will be no good.
Neural Networks doesn't care what platform they were written in when they are assembled; they are Assembly.

Is modern C++ becoming more prevalent? [closed]

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Closed 10 years ago.
When I first learned C++ 6-7 years ago, what I learned was basically "C with Classes". std::vector was definitely an advanced topic, something you could learn about if you really wanted to. And there was certainly no one telling me that destructors could be harnessed to help manage memory.
Today, everywhere I look I see RAII and SFINAE and STL and Boost and, well, Modern C++. Even people who are just getting started with the language seem to be taught these concepts almost from day 1.
My question is, is this simply because I'm only seeing the "best", that is, the questions here on SO, and on other programming sites that tend to attract beginners (gamedev.net), or is this actually representative of the C++ community as a whole?
Is modern C++ really becoming the default? Rather than being some fancy thing the experts write about, is it becoming "the way C++ just is"?
Or am I just unable to see the thousands of people who still learn "C with classes" and write their own dynamic arrays instead of using std::vector, and do memory management by manually calling new/delete from their top-level code?
As much as I want to believe it, it seems incredible if the C++ community as a whole has evolved so much in basically a few years.
What are your experiences and impressions?
(disclaimer: Someone not familiar with C++ might misinterpret the title as asking whether C++ is gaining popularity versus other languages. That's not my question. "Modern C++" is a common name for a dialect or programming style within C++, named after the book "Modern C++ Design: Generic Programming and Design Patterns Applied", and I'm solely interested in this versus "old C++". So no need to tell me that C++'s time is past, and we should all use Python ;))
Here's how I think things have evolved.
The first generation of C++ programmers were C programmers, who were in fact using C++ as C with classes. Plus, the STL wasn't in place yet, so that's what C++ essentially was.
When the STL came out, that advanced things, but most of the people writing books, putting together curricula, and teaching classes had learned C first, then that extra C++ stuff, so the second generation learned from that perspective. As another answer noted, if you're comfortable writing regular for loops, changing to use std::for_each doesn't buy you much except the warm fuzzy feeling that you're doing things the "modern" way.
Now, we have instructors and book writers who have been using the whole of C++, and getting their instructions from that perspective, such as Koenig & Moo's Accelerated C++ and Stroustrup's new textbook. So we don't learn char* then std::strings.
It's an interesting lesson in how long it takes for "legacy" methods to be replaced, especially when they have a track record of effectiveness.
Absolutely yes. To me if you're not programming C++ in this "Modern C++" style as you term, then there's no point using C++! You might as well just use C. "Modern C++" should be the only way C++ is ever programmed in my opinion, and I would expect that everyone who uses C++ and has programmed in this "Modern" fashion would agree with me. In fact, I am always completely shocked when I hear of a C++ programmer who is unaware of things such as an auto_ptr or a ptr_vector. As far as I'm concerned, those ideas are basic and fundamental to C++, and so I couldn't imagine it any other way.
In the days of Windows 3.1, C was the standard. When C++ hit the developer market and later became ANSI standard, it was the new hotness. It popularized the OOP acronym and some of the basic design patterns using polymorphism.
Now, with the greater acceptance of low-barrier-to-entry managed platforms, like C#/.NET, there's less of a reason to use C++. So much of the developer base will have a choice and let's be honest: C++ is a bear to learn for a novice. With C#, you can just run with it.
That leaves really only the platforms that NEED C++ and the die-hard C++ evangelists to continue practicing the art. This is the community that needs and wants all the layers of abstraction that is considered "Modern C++".
So yes, I believe "Modern C++", as you state it, is becoming more prevalent. Albeit, it's prevalent with a different audience than has used it in the past.
I am one of these guys who learned how to work with the STL and heard a lot about RAII and good C++ programming practices from day 1. Looks like some of the most recommended books for learning C++ today (like Accelerated C++ and the Effective C++ series) focus on using STL tools instead of rolling up your own stuff, and also give lots of "rules" for effective (or "modern") programming.
But talking with friends I also noted some companies still work with "C with Classes", not "Modern C++". Maybe the culture proposed by the authors and users of the "Modern C++" will prevail someday :)
I think you just had a bad experience starting off.
You need to get yourself Scott Meyers Effective C++ books. I started on C++ in anger in 1999, my team lead made me sit and read Effective C++ and More Effective C++ before I was allowed to check in ANY code.
Most of his advice is on the lines of "Don't use this feature, but if you must, keep this in mind"
If you follow his advice you'll write good or "Modern" C++.
He has a book on STL now too, but that I haven't read.
In my C++ jobs, I've found the modern features to be increasingly used, and more people asked me about them in phone screenings and interviews. As far as I can tell, they're catching on.
I learned C++ originally as something like C with Classes; although the language had advanced far beyond that, the books I read and people I worked with were firmly stuck on "old C++". RAII something people would think about, rather than automatically do, and I remember reading some of the early articles on the problems of exception safety.
As pointed out, there's new books out now. Many of the old ones are still relevant, but they increasingly seem to be full of explaining why obviously bad ideas are bad. (Similarly, it's hard for modern readers to understand how revolutionary Freud's ideas of an unconscious mind were, since it's now conventional wisdom.)
Stroustrup just came out with a textbook, Programming: Principles and Practice Using C++. I bought it because I haven't yet failed to learn good stuff from a book of Stroustrup's, but haven't gotten past the first few chapters. So far, all I can say is that I approve of the way he's starting out, and it's at least a good introduction to how C++ should be used.
While working on the project I am presently involved with, there's a lot of C++ code which has evolved over a significant period of time (over 10 years now). The evolution you speak of is clearly visible there: the older code is often "C with classes" - raw pointers, char* strings and use of associated C functions, arrays etc; newer code uses ATL smart pointers and such to manage resources, but still sticks to hand-coded loops most of the time, and iterator is a rare sight; and the newest one is chock-full of STL containers, algorithms, shared_ptr (including custom deleters to manage handles etc), heavily genericized function and class templates, and so on. Most traditional "C with classes" coding techniques, such as raw unencapsulated pointers with manual lifetime management, are very much frowned upon in code reviews these days. Judging by this, it seems that your observation is accurate.
The most recent development seems to be a fad for C++0x lambdas - which has a positive side in that it also tilts the balance in favor of using standard algorithms over hand-coded loops, since now you can have all your code inline with algorithms as well.
I wouldn't say that std::vector qualifies as "modern" these days. It is really basic.
Generally my impression is that people have gained some experience with modern C++ style and sobered up a little. Just to take a simple example, STL for_each was interesting but in practice it does not add a terrible lot of value over a plain C loop. It is harder to debug and sometimes does not provide the best performance. Also the constructs for functional programming in current STL are generally very cumbersome, especially if you got experience from a real functional language like ML.
In my experience (Spanish University), unfortunately, the norm is to not to consider languages in itself. They use the easiest languages to teach programming (i.e. Java), because it is supposed to be easy for teachers and students, and then they use C for the OS classes and such.
C++ is introduced very slightly (at any rate at any course), just to provide a C with classes. They don't get into boost or even STL. I think keeping up with all the characteristics and way of thinking of C++ is costly for both teachers and students. How many of C++ programmers here know enough of all the Boost libraries to use them to give a better solution or to design it? One has to have an interest in keeping up with all the new libraries and idioms.
However, as I said, it seems that programming in general (and programming languages in particular) are not taken too seriously, as it seems to be a temporal assignment when they start a job, then forget how to program as they go up in the enterprise tree. Many enterprises here, and the University itself, have the feel that programming can be done by anybody.
If you follow this philosophy, then for most people I know, C++ will always be "C with classes".
Regards,
In my experience it vastly depends on the age of the software product/project. Most new projects that I am aware of do use modern C++ (RAII, STL, Boost). However, there are many C++ projects that are more than 10 years old, and you don't see modern C++ there.
Also, keep in mind that some of the most popular STL implementations were pretty much broken until maybe 5 years ago (MSVC < 7.0 and GNU < 3.00)
I think the biggest barrier I've encountered is toolchain support, especially on cross-platform projects. Until a few years ago, it was common to see build notes saying "x platform needs STLport to work because their compiler is borked". Even now, I see issues with people trying to use multiple third-party dependencies tied to different versions of BOOST. This makes linking impossible, meaning you have to go back and rebuild your deps from scratch.
Now that just about everyone has stopped using MSVC++ 6, the STLport mess is behind us. But as soon as TR1 is out the door, we're back to "which versions of which environments support it and get it right" and once again this will slow adoption.
I work on a project begun in C (not C++) in 1992. Deploying modern practices across the legacy codebase would be impossible. Likewise I work on another project that is much closer to the cutting edge of C++ language.
Many teams I've been on and heard about consider the big "are we using exceptions?" question. This is code for "are we using modern C++?"
Once you aren't using exceptions, you are precluded from using the full power of the language and its libraries.
But many older codebases are exception-less, and it is perceived to be difficult to shoehorn exceptions into a codebase that doesn't expect them, or into a team that doesn't know how to use them, so the answer in such cases is often 'no.'
In my experience, modern C++ needs someone who is passionate about it on the team, who can't stand the sight of anything less, to push for it. It also needs to overcome the objections of those who want it to be more like the legacy code.
While I don't think that old-C++ codebases are going away very quickly, I do believe there are more of these passionate people in the world than there were five years ago. They face the same uphill battle they faced five years ago, but they are more likely to find kindred spirits.
Before answering such a question, you'd have to agree on what "Modern" is. This not likely to happen, since "Modern" is a poorly defined word, and means different things to different people. The title of Alexandrescu's book (Modern C++ Design) doesn't really help either, since it is largely a book on Template Metaprogramming, which is a specific area of C++ but by no means the only one.
For me, "Modern C++" != "Template Metaprogramming". I would say C++'s features on top of C would fall into these categories:
Classes (Constructors, Destructors, RAII, Dynamic Casting and RTTI)
Exceptions
References
Data Structures and Algorithms in the standard library (STL)
iostreams
Simple class and function templates
Template metaprogramming
None of these are particularly modern, since they've all been around nearly 10 years or more. Most of these features are useful and will allow you to be more productive than straight C for many use cases. A good programmer should and will use all of them in a decent sized project, but one of these things is not like the other:
Template Metaprogramming.
The short answer to template metaprogramming is just say no. Unfortunately to some people it's synonymous to "Modern C++ programming", due to the book, but in the end it creates more problems than it solves. Unless C++ develops better generic programming mechanisms like reflection, it will be ill suited for generic programming, and higher level languages like Python will be a better fit for those use cases. For that and many other reasons, see the C++ FQA
The best book for learning C++. "Accelerated C++" by Koenig & Moo, teaches what you describe as modern C++, so I guess most people these days are using it. For those of us that have been using C++ for quite a while (since the mid 80s in my case), modern C++ is a great relief from the tedious tasks of writing our own arrays, strings, hash tables (repeat ad nauseam).
I have looked at C++ Jobs on indeed and "modern" libraries are more and more used in job descriptions, MFC which is quite an "old-style" c++ library is less used.
The standardization of the language in the late 1990s was the first step, it allowed the compiler makers to focus on the "standard" set of features, also allowed the language to fix some of the rough edges, which appeared trough the standardization process.
This in turn allowed development of frameworks based on standard features of the language, and not on features provided by a particular compiler implementation. The Boost library is notably in this regard. Also this permitted that new development is based on previous work, thus making possible solutions to more complex problems.
A notable change here is how previously frameworks were based on the notion of base classes and derivated classes (a run time feature). But now most advanced features often are heavily based on "recursive" templates (a compile time feature).
The STL has its pros and cons but it survived the test of time, if you want something that works and is simple STL surely has something to help you start. There's no point in reinventing the wheel (unless for didactic reasons).
Computer hardware has also made great leaps from the 1990s, then the memory and CPU are no longer a constraint for the compiler. So most of the theoretical optimizations from books are now possible.
The next steps of the language is the support of multi-core programming, which is part of 0x standard effort.
Yes and no. Certainly for new projects it is increasingly popular. However, there are still barriers to adoption that are practical, not political, that others haven't mentioned. There are a lot of commercial C++ libraries that use ABIs from ancient compilers that don't properly support the features seen in Modern C++, and a lot of companies rely on these libraries. Sun Studio on Solaris for example can't work with Boost without the use of STLport, but any 3rd party commercial library you want to use will require Sun's version of the STL. Same story with GCC 2.95 and Redhat Enterprise Linux.
It's amaizing how little effort goes into making c++ more stable. The warning system is in place, but it's not evolving much. It's even easier to shoot yourself in a foot than it was 10 years ago. Dont know why, but c++ is still my favorite language. :)