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I'm imlementing Neural Networks using C language for a class. I haven't programmed with C++ nor with C for a long time. I started my first couple implementations using C language and it was a pain in the neck!
Now, I am not sure is it because of the language or its how NN is with any language??
BTW, we are not allowed to use any NN toolbox or libraries.
Some people told me its much easier to do it in C++. But I am in a very tight schedule and I'm afraid I might waste "valuable" time transitioning to C++ to find out the benefit is marginal!
So I thought you might guide me into this? Will it be worth it (time efficiency wise) to switch to C++ or not?
Thanks
Just like any other programming task (that doesn't rely on some framework which is only available in 1 language), there is no magical advantage gained by using a special language for Neural Networks.
If you agree that writing code in C++ in general is much easier than writing code in C, then writing Neural Networks code in C++ is much easier than writing Neural Networks code in C. But that is a highly opinion based topic.
Transitioning to C++ could be worth your time, especially if you've already developed some Object Oriented skills and understanding (even if not with the C++ language itself). However if OO is difficult for you, then the transition may cause more harm than good. It depends on you as a programmer.
The transition won't be as hard as you think. In my opinion, it's less like learning a new language altogether, but instead more like learning new features to a language. Keep in mind that all C code you write will still compile in C++ (mostly, I think? See Kitsune's comment on this answer) because C++ is almost a superset of C.
There's no... direct benefit, so to speak. You can still solve the problem in C, but C++ and Object Orientation may help you create a better, more sharable and understandable solution as although I don't know so much about Nueral Networks, I'm pretty sure some of the characteristics can be neatly abstracted thanks to Object Orientation.
Then again, if OO isn't your peice of cake, then this may end up making it even harder for you. Consider your strengths as a programmer: could you draw a class diagram to figure out how everything fits together comfortably? Do you have a good understanding and appreciation of OO concepts like interfacing and abstraction? If not, then OO could do more harm than good.
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In http://www.stepanovpapers.com/notes.pdf, Alexander Stepanov mentions:
It is interesting to note that the only examples of inheritance that
remained in STL inherit from empty classes. Originally, there were
many uses of inheritance inside the containers and even iterators, but
they had to be removed because of the problems they caused.
What are the technical problems that precluded the use of inheritance in the STL?
I think I will put some comments directly from Alexander Stepanov (http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html).
Question:
STL is full of creative uses of templates, such as symbolic
types exported from classes, or the pattern matching of a set of
overloaded algorithms onto iterator tags. Surely enough, no standard
C++ Programming book speaks about those idioms. How did you come to
these C++ code idioms?
Answer:
I knew exactly what I was trying to accomplish. So I tweaked
the language until I was able to get by. But it took me many years to
discover all the techniques. And I had many false starts. For example,
I spent years trying to find some use for inheritance and virtuals,
before I understood why that mechanism was fundamentally flawed and
should not be used. I am very happy that nobody could see all the
intermediate steps - most of them were very silly. It takes me years
to come up with anything half decent. It also helped that Bjarne was
willing to put certain features in the language just to enable some of
my idioms. He once refered to it as "just in time language design."
Next, I will allow myself to direct you to this great answer:
https://stackoverflow.com/a/1039904/210971
OOP is not the holy grail. It's a cute idea, and it was quite an
improvement over procedural languages back in the 70's when it was
invented. But it's honestly not all it's cracked up to be. In many
cases it is clumsy and verbose and it doesn't really promote reusable
code or modularity.
That is why the C++ community is today far more interested in generic
programming, and why everyone are finally starting to realize that
functional programming is quite clever as well. OOP on its own just
isn't a pretty sight.
And now something from me:
OOP rules dictates the way (inheritance, polymorphism, etc.) a programmer thinks about interaction between things (objects, entities, tribbles, etc.).
This is clearly visible in this simple Java example from time before adding support for generics (but these are not as verbose as in C++).
List v = new ArrayList();
v.add("test");
Integer i = (Integer)v.get(0); // Run time error
Although the code is compiled without error, it throws a runtime exception (java.lang.ClassCastException) when executing the third line of code. This type of problem can be avoided by using generics and is the primary motivation for using generics.
List<String> v = new ArrayList<>();
v.add("test");
Integer i = v.get(0); // (type error) compilation-time error
Alexander Stepanov recognized that generic approach can solve this issue, help in providing logical separation (abstraction) between data structures and algorithms. This is why there is so much emphasis on iterators, functors, and many other idioms that fit very well into generic world.
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Is there a way to enforce the use of modern c++ 11 features from the compiler?
We have to start a new project and stay in C++ will benefit us from the use of the our existing tools and libraries, but what is currently hurting us to the death is the abuse of C style coding, raw pointers, C style vectors and all the dangerous C features that are so error prone or produce errors that are really hard to track, you know what i mean.
I read a note about what is bad in C++ today (c++11 and beyond) is the c++ past and the abuse of low level/old features when is not necessary.
I really would like to enforce from the compiler or with other tool the use of c++ 11 features like smart pointers, containers, reference parameters, c++ standard library and not C libraries, etc.
Thank you very much.
EDIT: I thought it is not necessary to clarify the use of code review. etc. I just ask if there is or not a tool/mechanism that filters creating features, or enforce modern safer features/coding practices. All the lose ends we will manage or figure out later. Thank you very much!
You might want to take a look at clang-modernize, it can help with some of what you're looking for. In addition running static analysis to help catch bad practices could help identify areas of your codebase in particular need of some attention / modernization. There are a number of such tools associated with clang and MSVC also has its own static analysis if you're working with Visual Studio.
The only way to ensure c++11 features like auto variable declarations, using lambda definitions, range based for loops, etc. are used preferred to older techniques are human based code reviews.
Usage of deprecated stuff, like usage of std::auto_ptr may be sorted out by warnings already.
But enforcing new way styles might become hard, without having a 2nd pair of experienced eyes looking at the code.
I could think of instrumenting an appropriate static code analysis tool, to detect old style patterns and propose the c++11 standard way to do it, but that's a way too broad topic, and depends on the static analysis tool used.
At the risk of getting downvoted to oblvion.
So you or your "expert" on C++ programming, want to ban certain practices.
Because you know they are bad.
One such practice is using raw pointers. Shame that there are C++ programmers who not only use pointers very often, but think they are a good thing thing to use. Guys like Herb Sutter, who in a recent talk ( CppCon I think ) said exactly that.
Another practice you mention is using C style vectors. Not a problem since C does not have vectors.
Those are really the only two that you mention. But you do talk about banning features that cause errors. That can easily be achieved. Instead of issuing your programmers computers. Issue them etch-a sketch's.
Other then that, I would say that your company should hire people who are real experts, not some guy who read a Herb Schildt book.
PS: I was trying to remember what your post smelled like, now I remember. It smells like one of those deign doc review, where one guy spend half the time arguing about spelling errors in the design docs.
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I'm learning C, but after that or in the meanwhile, what should I learn first and subsequently before getting into C++ ? Compilers, Data Structures, UML or Design Patterns ?(also when start to learn Win32 API ?) I'm not in a hurry at all, so I can grasp the requirements from the deepest beginning. I just don't want to get lost for being cursory and negligent.
In addition to this, which subjects on mathematics has most impact on coding very well ? Linear Algebra, Discrete Mathematics, Calculus ?
I'll be thankful if someone guides me through this journey. There are many questions I would like to know the answers. Thanks.
First you should learn that C++ is not a superior language. C has its uses as more than a stepping stone into C++. C, and "C-style" C++ are used because they:
Generate smaller binaries
Use less memory
Compile faster
Do not require OS-support
Are simpler, and easier to implement
Data structures are by far the most useful of the listed to learn, followed by algorithms. If you intend to go into C++, it's also useful (mandatory?) to have good design skills.
You should not necessarily learn Win32 at all. Consider learning the POSIX APIs, GTK+ and Boost, as they're more portable, and work on platforms other than Windows.
The best decision you can make is to learn C thoroughly as a separate skill on a Unix platform, before crutching yourself by not being able to see the difference between C and C++.
Of the listed Mathematics disciplines, I've only used discrete mathematics. Linear algebra is also useful, but by far and away the best discipline for programming is set and number theory.
Enjoy your time in C, don't become dependent on Windows/Visual Studio, and don't rush into C++.
Update0
Almost forgot! You absolutely must use a decent C compiler. A central reason to C++'s wide use in enterprise, and the bad reputation C has among Windows developers is Visual Studio. Visual Studio is easily the best C++ IDE, however it's also the worst C compiler I know of. Be sure to use a C compiler with C99 support, such as GCC, mingw or Clang. My first experience with C was using LCC, which was very easy to use on Windows, but I haven't used it since moving to Linux, so I can't comment on its C99 status.
Compilers, Data Structures, UML or Design Patterns ?
Data Structures and Algorithms.
In addition to this, which subjects on mathematics has most impact on coding very well ? Linear Algebra, Discrete Mathematics, Calculus ?
Discrete Mathematics and Number Theory.
You should learn to program in a well structured language first: Ocaml is recommended, Haskell is also good but a bit harder to get a working compiler and harder to learn because it is purely functional.
Mathematics is of little use in programming (the math that is useful is too hard, namely category theory). However some basic type theory is useful.
You can't learn good programming in languages like C, the important stuff is too deeply buried in housekeeping tasks and historical stupidities.
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I want to learn python, but I feel I should learn C or C++ to get a solid base to build on. I already know some C/C++ as well as other programming languages, which does help. So, should I master C/C++ first?
In my opinion it's better to start learning Python.
I found it easier to learn then C or C++. It has libraries to do virtually anything you might need, and can do essentially anything.
The only reason to use a more difficult language like C/C++ is if you need the performance or are writing code for an embedded system. They are not, however, what you should be learning initially.
C# is a fine language, but nothing beats Python for ease of use.
The scope of Python is quite broad, here are some examples:
Create a website (Django, etc.)
Create scripts to do tasks ranging from image manipulation to server maintenance
Create GUIs (Tkinter, etc.)
Create games (pygame)
Scientific computing (SciPy)
Python can interact directly with arbitrary C code, meaning anything which can be done in C, can be done in Python with a little work. Python is popular enough that an interface has been created for virtually everything already.
For a better look at what can be done with python out of the box, take a look at the standard library which comes with python: http://docs.python.org/library/
In short, if it can be done with a computer, and doesn't require the speed of C/C++, it can be done with Python.
I would say it depends on what you want to achieve (cheesy answer...)
The truth is, learning language is a long process. If you plan on learning a language as a step toward learning another language, you're probably wasting your time.
It takes a good year to be proficient with C++, and that is with basic knowledge of algorithms and object concepts. And I only mean proficient, meaning you can get things done, but certainly not expert or anything.
So the real question is, do you want to spend a year learning C++ before beginning to learn Python ?
If the ultimate goal is to program in Python... it doesn't seem worth it.
Real mastery of a language takes time and lots of practice .. its analogous to learning a natural language like French . you have to do a lot of practice in it. but then different languages teach you different programming methodologies.
python and c++ are all object oriented languages so you will be learning the same programming methodology
The order in which you learn languages doesn't really matter but starting from a lower abstraction to higher one makes understanding some things easier..
In my opinion you should defiantly learn Python before attempting to learn C or C++ as you will get a better understanding of the core concepts, C++ is mush lower level than Python so you will need to make more commands to do something that you can do in one line in python.
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I was wondering how valuable open-source projects are to learn from?
I still consider myself "beginner" due moreso to lack of experience than lack of knowledge- I've read many C/C++ tutorials and taken classes and such, but I just really lack experience. Therefore, even though I understand the major data types and coding techniques, I don't have a solid grasp on what approach to take to use them in my own programming. Therefore, while I continue to read/practice/learn, I have been downloading lots of open-source code (random applications, emulators, games). It is worthwhile looking at them to help learn? I find it extremely interesting, but more often than not just get lost.
Second question, where does one usually start when doing this? Do you hunt down a main() function somewhere? Do you look at headers to see what functions will be available throughout the code and get an idea of what is around to work with?
Please let me know!
R
I personally wouldn't recommend the reading of the source code of open-source projects to a beginner, especially if they're mature projects. It may be overwhelming for a beginner since they tend to be rather large projects with thousands of lines of code, most likely of a non-trivial design.
If you lack experience, then the best way to gain experience is by writing your own programs and taking on your own projects that are of interest to you, in my opinion. You can certainly read other people's code to see "how it's done", but actually trying to implement those ideas yourself in practice does more to help you understand how to write code than just passively reading code. In turn, the gained understanding and experience will allow you to make better sense of other people's code.
It's sort of like math; you may know the formulae, and you can see how mathematicians/teachers/professors/etc. use those formulae, but you won't really understand them until you try them out yourself. Once you do understand them, then the kinds of things mathematicians write will make much more sense.
Try to focus on things you want to do, there's not a lot of point in looking at code for an application that you have no reference point for.
The best place to start would probably be to look at a project like Boost
But formulate a series of application tasks that you'd like to investigate, perhaps graphics, text editing or socket programming... and then work from there.
Getting a good IDE or programmers editor that will help you navigate the code is a major plus.
For example, Emacs + ECTAGS/CEDET/Semantic will help you browse all the functions / classes in a C / C++ project.
I'm agree with #In silico. It's very useful to see other's code, but only when it's a little bit over your level, so that you can learn something. I've seen quite a few projects that were too "over-engineered", so that learning from them when you can't really tell the good from the bad will be a bad idea.
Another thing is to learn from another programmer, when you could ask why he did one way and not another. In this case the difference in levels does not matter.
So I'd suggest programming by yourself, and looking on the other people's code for the same thing after you've tried it. In this way you'll be able to compare the choices you've seen and the decision you've made with someone else (when you don't know a problem in depth, any suggested solution would seem right). You know, In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.