Is it a good idea to use gtkmm gui toolkit for some desktop client application ?
Is this toolkit stable and is there enough documentation online ?
I used gtkmm to write professional applications and yes you can use it for real world software development.
But I also used C/GTK+ and C++/Qt and my opinion is that using Gtkmm you have the feeling that the original toolkit was meant to be used in C and the porting to C++ is ok but in many cases you feel that C++ features could have been used better.
For Comparison:
If you have to choose between Gtk and Gtkmm go for Gtkmm even though you might find yourself stuck in some not well documented or supported function. Eventually you always manage to find a solution (you can check the source code) and c++ is way better then c.
If you have to choose between Gtkmm and Qt, go for Qt. There is a HUGE gap between the two. Not only in the toolkit itself but in the documentation and all the other classes that you need when writing an application.
I started two month ago with gtkmm. I actually port a tcl/tk application and it feels very hard for my to get the things run. The only useful documentation I found is the https://developer.gnome.org/gtkmm-tutorial/3.4/
But many things described in the manual are not working! I actually run into trouble while overriding signal handlers which should work but didn't. Maybe you will take a look in gtkmm-list#gnome.org to find out what kind of problems yo will maybe run in :-)
The docs derived from the doxygen input seems useless for me, because the functions are mostly not described and the parameter names or often not very clear to me.
In comparison to tcl/tk the interface looks inconsistent. Sometimes a parameter must be provided by a text, sometimes by a pointer and sometimes by the native value itself. Especially the menus are very "mysterious" with the string based configuration. The need of having parameters as text is very unhandy! You have to convert the parameter with ostrstream into a text and parse the parameters sometimes yourself from text to real values.
I decided to give gtk+ a chance is the existence of the c++ interface. I thought it would be helpful to get the errors in compile time and not while running the app like with tcl/tk. But this is not the always true with gtkmm. With gtkmm you are also able to run into run time errors because all string parameters will be parsed during run time! This makes the things error prone!
Maybe I will start again and give Qt a chance. But a first view on it shows, that this seems not really better :-)
Writing a gui application still is a really annoying job!
gtkmm is a official supported binding of GTK (gtk.org/language-bindings.php).
"inkscape" and "ardour" are notable applications written in gtkmm
The bindings that are official GNOME Bindings follow the GNOME release schedule which guarantees API stability and time-based releases.
If you want to write your Application in C, go with GTK+ (and the GLib).
You can find a link to the documentation at http://www.gtkmm.org/ (https://developer.gnome.org/gtkmm-tutorial/).
With Glade (and ie. PyGTK) you could rapid prototype your application.
Building a GUI with Glade is easy and the resulting UI is a xml file, that is not bound to a programming language.
Related
We have existing WPF application with complicated graphics (rounded edges of the window, speedometer style indicators etc).
Since we rely on .NET our application needs .NET framework. Some users are unwilling to install .NET and we want to provide them with a version that does not need .NET and runs of Windows only (XP,Vista,W7).
Which graphical toolkit we should use to for this scenario?
So far I think Codejock Toolkit Pro is a good adept as we already have GUI in XAML and it could be easier to port GUI to C++.
However, another aspect is download size of the toolkit. We don't want to end up in the situation where toolkit size is so big (e.g. 20-40MB) that's comparable with .NET 4.0 framework size.
I know some of you might think that going back from WPF to C++ is a bad idea, but for our scenario it is absolutely crucial to make user's installation process as easy as possible and .NET framework is a big stumbling block which we are trying to remove.
Sorry I do not have the answer to your question (and I would never ever even dream that I might do such a thing), but I am compelled to tell you as an advice
implementing all the WPF functionality in C++ will take 10-20 times more
installation of a C++ would not be necessarily easier
if you need to make installation easier, use SilverLight
We used QT in one of our projects in past which is Object Oriented and Multi Platform, but QT is mostly like WinForms
As I remember QT keeps UI in xml files too, try to write XSLT from xaml to QT xml. But I don't thik you can do it in complex WPF structures like Triggers or Animation
Have you evaluated QT? Since this relies on XML for UI definition too, it might be easier to port the code to.
You've already gotten a couple of answers recommending Qt -- and I'd agree that's probably your first choice. Note, however, that while Qt does support an XML-based UI description, they seem to be moving away from it toward QML, which is based on JavaScript instead.
Another possibility would be wxWidgets, which also supports an XML-based description of the widgets using XRC.
I'm interested to know if gtkmm w/ ATK (or whatever) works with MSAA like Qt does. We're looking right now at switching toolkit from WX and it turns out that our testing software relies on MSAA to do it's thing (something I wish I'd known 3 years ago when we picked WX to begin with). Of all the GUI toolkits, I prefer GTKmm mainly due to it's use of signals and slots but in a way much more expressive and generic than Qt's....and without the need for the extra build step that requires the Qt VS plugin. The designer is much better too.
So I'd like to use GTKmm but the only discussions and google stuff I can find on the topic are 3+ years old. They lead me to believe the answer is no, it doesn't support it and if it does it's really shoddy. But a lot can change in 3 years.
So, anyone that uses GTK or GTKmm on win32 know if it supports the windows accessibility framework?
I can’t say for sure but I would lean toward very little to no support. I use the Jaws screen reader SOFTWARE SINCE I’m blind. It uses MSAA quite heavily and GTK applications such as Pidgin are almost completely inaccessible. While I can read some of the text on a screen figuring out weather I’m in an edit field or weather a button is selected is impossible. If my screen reader can’t deal with GTK applications I assume your testing software will have major issues as well.
I don't know if this is still being tracked but I will second this assessment as another windows screen reader user. gnuCash was the app I tried and it was pretty rough going. Worked like a dream in Gnome with Orca though. Apparently, it's like this, if you want windows accessibility, use QT and WxWidgets. If you want Linux, use gtk+. QT is going to be accessible in Linux apparently though this is yet to be (not till gnome 3, I think). Pity you had to abandon WxWidgets. I personally like their widgets since it has those sizers which take much of the guess work out of placement of controls. Important when you can't see and you want to build a gui. Looks like about the only cross-platform accessibility solutions right now are Xul and SWT (Java, you know). Sad thing about WxWidgets is that this sort of thing was reported to them two years ago but nothing seems to have been done about it.
http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/9785
I would be delighted to know that I am wrong about this. I doubt it, though.
For my school project, I would like to build a gui that someone else can use to create a gui. Upon some research I saw lot of gui builders but didn't see anything along the lines of what I am looking for.
But then I did find a tutorial using C# on here
I rather create this gui editor for linux environment.
Any suggestions to where I should start? what tools I can use? Any links to any tutorials?
Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I would like to add that it only needs to be very simple. like few text input fields and some button type fields that user can arrange in the order desired.
I would recommend that you not try to build your own GUI builder. It is a daunting task that you will not be able to accomplish as a school project. C++ is fully-compiled, which means that it lacks almost every feature that enables people to build meta-tools (like GUI editors) for it. This mainly has to do with the fact that C++ does not have runtime reflection (natively, anyway). Beyond that, there is no "one GUI toolkit and/or paradigm to rule them all." This makes your problem incredibly difficult to deal with.
So: I would recommend Qt, because it works on a ton of platforms, is easy to use and is just plain awesome. You could also look at the billions of other GUI toolkits like Gtk+, Tk, FLTK, YAAF, GLUI, dlib, CLX...
I'm aware that this does not actually answer the question. However, I do not think that the author is aware of how incredibly difficult the task he has set in front of himself is.
I would recommend starting by implementing it like an interpreter. Start with a very simple command line tool that takes commands like window(300, 400, "window1") and button(50,100, "button1") etc and output the code (native or whatever other GUI code you want), to a file. The goal should be to output a file that can be run and show the GUI that was designed. Once you have that, build a GUI that uses the command line functions as a back-end.
I don't have any exact links to this, but here's an example of what you could do. Gtk has the option of loading a GUI by using a class called GtkBuilder. Glade (the usual Gtk gui editor) has support for outputting it's result as an XML file that the GtkBuilder class then reads.
It would be possible for your program to output an equivalently formed XML file that GtkBuilder could read.
I have no clue as to how difficult it would be to target that XML though.
You should use GTK+ or Qt if you are targeting the linux environment. I think the first step is to learn how to program gui, which takes some time considering you are writing c/c++ code wich is different from higher level languages. Don't you think learning to code gui programs and writing a gui builder at the same time is a little bit too much.? First you should master the basics about gui and then go on to harder projects.
Here's a link to an excellent book on gtk. (Foundations of gtk+ development - Andrew Krause)
http://books.google.com/books?id=L1BZZYRrqSgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=foundations+krause&hl=es&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
And here's a great tutorial/cookbook for gtk+.
http://zetcode.com/tutorials/gtktutorial/
The official documentation is on library.gnome.org
My final advice is learn one thing at a time.
I want to write a C++ application with Qt, but build a prototype first using Python and then gradually replace the Python code with C++.
Is this the right approach, and what tools (bindings, binding generators, IDE) should I use?
Ideally, everything should be available in the Ubuntu repositories so I wouldn't have to worry about incompatible or old versions and have everything set up with a simple aptitude install.
Is there any comprehensive documentation about this process or do I have to learn every single component, and if yes, which ones?
Right now I have multiple choices to make:
Qt Creator, because of the nice auto completion and Qt integration.
Eclipse, as it offers support for both C++ and Python.
Eric (haven't used it yet)
Vim
PySide as it's working with CMake and Boost.Python, so theoretically it will make replacing python code easier.
PyQt as it's more widely used (more support) and is available as a Debian package.
Edit: As I will have to deploy the program to various computers, the C++-solution would require 1-5 files (the program and some library files if I'm linking it statically), using Python I'd have to build PyQt/PySide/SIP/whatever on every platform and explain how to install Python and everything else.
I want to write a C++ application with Qt, but build a prototype first using Python and then gradually replace the Python code with C++. Is this the right approach?
That depends on your goals. Having done both, I'd recommend you stay with Python wherever possible and reasonable. Although it takes a bit of discipline, it's very possible to write extremely large applications in Python. But, as you find hotspots and things that can be better handled in C++, you can certainly port relevant parts to C++.
Is there any comprehensive documentation about this process or do I have to learn every single component, and if yes, which ones?
Here's what I'd recommend for the various pieces:
EDITOR/IDE: Use any editor/IDE you're comfortable with, but I'd highly recommend one that supports refactoring. If you're comfortable with Eclipse, use it. If you want to mainly go the C++ route and you're not too familiar with any editors, you might be better off with QtCreator. Eric is an extremely good Python IDE with support for refactoring, unless you're going to be doing lots of C++, take a look at it. Even better, its source code is an example of good PyQt usage and practices.
PROCESS:
The quick summary:
Write your application in Python using PyQt
When identified as hotspots, convert decoupled Python classes to C++
Create bindings for those classes using SIP
Import the newly defined libraries in Python in place of their Python counterparts
Enjoy the speed boost
General details:
Write the application in Python using PyQt. Be careful to keep a good separation of concerns so that when you need to port pieces to C++ they will be separate from their dependencies. When you finally need to port something to C++, write it in C++/Qt and then create bindings for it using SIP. SIP has a good reference manual on the process, and you have all of PyQt as an example.
DEPLOYMENT:
C++ - For many applications the dependencies are sufficiently simple that it's not too difficult to create an installer using a tool like NullSoft's Installer or InnoSetup.
Python/PyQt - PyQt applications are a bit more difficult to install because of the dependency on Python and its dependence on the presence of the Qt libraries. One person documented his efforts on this post at ARSTechnica. py2exe works pretty well on Windows and should work fine. IME, freeze.py, which comes with the Python source, sometimes has problems determining which shared libraries are truly necessary and will sometimes end up creating a binary whose dependencies aren't present. Py2app can be made to work on Mac OS X.
But worse, however, is the PyQt/Qt licensing. If you are developing a commercial application, you need to have a commercial PyQt (and Qt) license and make sure to prevent the users from easily modifying the source or otherwise writing code against the PyQt/Qt API because of licensing restrictions. Because of that, the PyQt author created a tool called VendorId (although it has a Python license). Within VendorId is a tool called SIB that can be used to create an executable which depends only on the Python interpreter. But, if you're going to go this far, you might want to install a custom Python along with your application.
DISCLAIMER: I haven't used PySide at all, so I'm not sure how it compares to PyQt. Also, note the following warning on their website:
PySide is a work in progress and is not yet suited for application development requiring production-level stability.
But, on a good note, they intend, at least for the initial release to "maintain API compatibility with PyQt." So, aside from the C++ bindings, you could easily switch between the two later.
If you are just learning Qt and want to leverage the speed of prototyping that Python gives you, then I would recommend you make a sample project using PyQt. As you said, there is a debian package, so you are just a simple apt-get away from making your first application.
I personally use gVim as my Python/Qt editor, but you can really use any Python-friendly editor without much trouble. I liked WingIDE and they have auto-complete for Qt but once you sip from the vim kool-aid it's hard to switch.
I would say that PySide is 95%+ compatible with PyQt and the LPGL license is nice, but if you are just trying to prototype your first Qt app, then I don't think there is a real reason to use PySide. Although, I do like the PySide docs better, you can also just use them and replace all the library references with PyQt.
Depending on the complexity of the application you are building, it might be better off to just start from scratch with a C++ version than to try to do a bunch SIP refactoring black magic. Once you have a solid grasp of the Qt framework, you should be able to switch between the C++ and Python bindings pretty effortlessly.
I would draw UI mockups before starting to code prototypes. Here are some benefits:
Quicker than coding prototypes as there is no programming involved
Quickly fill widgets, such as tables and trees, with data
Add descriptions and notes to your screens
Easily integrate mockups into specification documents without having to capture screens
Validate UI design concepts before implementing
There are a lot of tools that can help you do that, but if you are going to use Qt, MockupUI may be a good choice as it renders Qt widgets with native styles for Windows 7,8 or 10 which makes your mockup look more realistic.
We currently maintain a suit of MFC applications that are fairly well designed, however the user interface is beginning to look tired and a lot of the code is in need quite a bit of refactoring to tidy up some duplication and/or performance problems. We make use of quite a few custom controls that handle all their own drawing (all written using MFC).
Recently I've been doing more research into Qt and the benefits it provides (cross-platform and supports what you might call a more "professional" looking framework for UI development).
My question is - what would be the best approach to perhaps moving to the Qt framework? Does Qt play nice with MFC? Would it be better to start porting some of our custom controls to Qt and gradually integrate more and more into our existing MFC apps? (is this possible?).
Any advice or previous experience is appreciated.
In my company, we are currently using Qt and are very happy with it.
I personnally never had to move a MFC-app into using the Qt framework, but here is something which might be of some interest for you :
Qt/MFC Migration Framework
Qt/MFC Migration Framework
It's part of Qt-Solutions, so this means you'll have to buy a Qt license along with a Qt-Solutions license. (edit: not any more)
I hope this helps !
(This doesn't really answer your specific questions but...)
I haven't personally used Qt, but it's not free for commercial Windows development.
Have you looked at wxWindows which is free? Nice article here. Just as an aside, if you wanted a single code base for all platforms, then you may have to migrate away from MFC - I am pretty sure (someone will correct if wrong) that MFC only targets Windows.
One other option would be to look at the Feature Pack update to MFC in SP1 of VS2008 - it includes access to new controls, including the Office style ribbon controls.
It's a tricky problem, and I suspect that the answer depends on how much time you have. You will get a much better result if you port your custom controls to Qt - if you use the QStyle classes to do the actual drawing then you'll end up with theme-able code right out of the box.
In general, my advice would be to bite the bullet and go the whole way at once. Sure, it might take longer, but the alternative is to spend an age trying to debug code that doesn't quite play ball, and end up writing more code to deal with minor incompatibilities between the two systems (been there, done that).
So, to summarise, my advice is to start a branch and rip out all your old MFC code and replace it with Qt. You'll get platform independence (almost) for free, and while it will take a while, you'll end up with a much nicer product at the end of it.
One final word of warning: make sure you take the time to understand the "Qt way of doing things" - in some cases it can be quite different to the MFC approach - the last thing you want to do is to end up with MFC-style Qt code.
I have lead a team doing this kind of thing before (not MFC to QT but the principles should work).
First we documented the dialogs and what their inputs, controls and outputs were. Also, we create several test cases especially for any clever logic inside the GUI.
Sometimes we had to refactor some business logic to provide a clean interface the GUIs but this is the way it should have been done in the first place tbh.
Now we had a list of GUIs, inputs, outputs, tests and an interface that the encapsulated GUI had to match.
We began, project by project, to create equivilant GUIs to the old ones. Once we did that we could slot the GUI in where the old one was, rebuild and test it. At first we tripped a lot but we soon worked out the common errors and fixed them. We navigated (I think) 612 dialogs although there was a team of about a dozen of us working on it.