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Let me just say right off the bat that i'm not a programmer. I'm just a guy with an idea taking his first steps to make it a reality. I'm no stranger to programming, mind you, but some of the concepts and terminology here are way over my head; so i apologize in advance if this question was answered before (i.e. Convert Python program to C/C++ code?).
I have an idea to create a simple A.I. network to analyze music data sent from a phone via cloud computing (I got a guy for the cloud stuff). It will require a lot of memory and need to be fast for the hard number-crunching. I had planned on doing it in python, but have since learned that might not be such a good idea (Is Python faster and lighter than C++?).
Since python is really the only gun i have in my holster, i was thinking of using a python-to-C++-converter. But nothing comes without a price:
Is this an advantageous way to keep my code fast?
What's the give-and-take for using a converter?
Am i missing anything? I'm still new to this so i'm not even sure what questions to ask.
Thanks in advance.
Generally it's an awful way to write code, and does not guarantee that it will be any faster. Things which are simple and fast in one language can be complex and slow in another. You're better off either learning how to write fast Python code or learning C++ directly than fighting with a translator and figuring out how to make the generated code run acceptably.
If you want C++, use C++. Note, however that PyPy have a bunch of benchmarks showing that they can be much faster than C; and with NumPy, which uses compiled extensions, numerical work becomes much faster and easier.
If you want to programme in something statically compiled, and a bit like Python, there's RPython.
Finally, you can do what NumPy does: use extensions written in C or C++ for most of your heavy computational lifting, where that appears to be appropriate, either because profiling shows a hotspot, or because you need an extension to more easily do something involving python's internals. Note that this will tie your code to a particular implementation.
Similar to what was already stated, C++ may be faster in some areas and slower in others. Python is exactly the same. In the end, any language will be converted into machine code. It is really up to the compiler in the end to make it as efficient as it knows how to do. That said, it is better to pick one language and learn how to write fast and efficient code to do what you want.
No because significant part of the good C++ performance comes from the possibility to choose the better performing architecture. It does not come magically from the same fact "because it is C".
A simple, line by line translation from Python into C++ is unlikely to increase the performance more than just using something like Cython so I think it is more reasonable to use Cython. It can still be much worse than a good developer can do with C++ from scratch. C++ simply provides more control over everything like possibility to define data type of the minimal needed length, fixed size array on stack, turn off array bounds checking in production and the like.
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I recently asked the question if I could limit bandwidth via a C# WinForms applications much like NetLimiter and NetBalancer. I was told that there's two ways to do this. Either via proper QoS or writing something along the lines of an "NDIS Network Filter Driver". Using QoS isn't the way I want to take. So I've looked up some of the stuff required to write drivers and found some interesting points. Points such as a good understanding of C/C++, because the executed code being very prone to BSODs since it could be run in something called "Kernel mode". I also found a GitHub "dump" which looks interesting and tempts me to investigate and look around in.
As you can see I'm no where near advanced enough to delve into this on a professional level. Ignoring that, what would be a good start to start my adventures into writing drivers to monitor - and further down the line manipulate the network to introduce throttling.
Any help, guides or information that might be of help is always appreciated.
PS: I am unsure as to whether this is (as afore mentioned in a comment to my previous question) too broad a question to be answered on Stack Overflow. If so, where would I go to ask this?
Indeed, this would be too broad. Driver writing is a complicated thing which requires a good understanding of how a computer and the OS works. Also, C# (and .NET itself) indeed isn't available in Kernel Mode, so C/C++ is the preferred way. Although theoretically any unmanaged language (like Pascal) could do, I haven't heard of anyone writing drivers in them. Microsoft's own developer resources are also written with C/C++ in mind.
Which brings us to the question of why you want to do it.
If you need it for work and there's a deadline - forget it. Get someone else who already knows this stuff. Or there might be a library out there that fills the need. Any of these options will be cheaper than your time spent learning all this stuff.
If it's for your own curiosity however - go for it! I'd advise by starting to learn C first. Not C++, that's more complicated and for drivers it will be easier with C anyway. But you can pick up C++ later too, it's good stuff. C++ is mostly compatible with C, so you can start with C and then continue with C++.
In parallel, get a good book about OS design. Not because you want to design an OS, but to understand the basic concepts that it is built upon. You should get a good understanding of things such as Kernel Mode/User Mode, virtual memory, interrupts, process scheduling, etc.
Learning a bit of assembly might be useful too (albeit not required).
Finally, when you feel like you've got a good grasp of the above, head over to MSDN and start reading about driver development. There will be long articles and example programs to get you started. Tweak them and play around in a virtual machine until you get what you need.
And also... read this.
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My background is like this: embedded/C, then C++, then higher level OO languages (Java, Scala, Ruby, Groovy, etc.), and now I am doing a small project involving MSP430 microcontroller. Meanwhile, inspired by that, I am contemplating a number of potential pet embedded system projects (meshes and/or RTLS look appealing). So my question is focused primarily on MSP430 for now, though, as an aside, I'd love to have a broader picture, too, involving other microcontrollers.
I was a bit surprised finding out that, after so many years, I might need to go back to C, with its macros, naming conventions, and all. My brain used to be wired for C, but that was many, many years ago.
So what alternatives are available?
C++ feels much more agreeable to me, and, fortunately, seems doable: http://stonepile.fi/object-oriented-approach-to-embedded-programming-with-c/
So if I am to program C++, I just need to inline a lot, avoid virtual functions when possible, and I should be good, right? (at least, memory-wise; they did not benchmark for performance at the above link).
However, if it's so easy, why do people program C? I must be missing something.
The above link also seems to provide a wrapper library for pico]OS. Has anyone used picoOS on MSP430, how reliable is it, and how much resources does it take?
What are the pros and cons of Energia for a simple MS430 project? I tried it, it seems very intuitive and self-documenting, but does it result in as neat a code under the hood? For instance, does Energia initialize unused GPIO to the off state to save energy? Does it initialize unused interrupts? What is the overhead in terms of memory and speed? Etc.
Edit: As a long-time Eclipse person, I'd love to use CCS. I saw that Energia sketches can be imported to CCS. Does it mean that CCS have full support for Energia and can be used as an Energia IDE?
Has anyone used Java Grinder http://hackaday.com/2014/02/10/java-grinder-spits-out-dspic-and-msp430-assembly-code/ ? It seems appealing, but because it spits out an Assembly and not C/C++ code, it's a bit scary to commit to it: what if I am locked into it and it's not ready for the prime time? If it generated C code, I could have easily dropped it if it did not work.
I mentioned Java and my question was deleted, as it's self-evident that other than grinder-like syntactic sugar (not that I mind syntactic sugar!), Java can't run on MSP430. I guess I'll ask another question re WHERE Java can run. This has already grown too long.
What other languages/environments are out there, that fill the niche between low- and hig-level languages?
you seem to have several questions here so I shall go through in the order you numbered them.
Most micros will indeed run C++ (assuming the manufacturer or an open source project provides a compiler back-end), however you have to be wary of a number of drawbacks. C++ Is less deterministic, as in, it provides a significantly higher level of abstraction, which one likely does not want an a resource constrained embedded system, and by and large it is not needed either as embedded systems are rarely powerful enough to usefully run the enormously complex algorithms that warrant a high level language like C++. It is also likely to cause a wide range of hard to track bugs, given the difficulty of debugging code from an embedded system having bugs which are simple and easy to trace are very much nicer. However very importantly, the C++ standard libraries are enormous, they will use excessive ram and very likely waste much of your limited memory space. Thus, even if you do use C++, you wont be able to use any of the techniques that make it powerful.
Simply, I have not used it, however like any RTOS, it is useful if you want a slightly higher level interface, however for a micro the tiny size of the MSP430 it seems overkill, I cannot imagine you doing anything on there that warrants an ROTS, if you need multitasking it would be better to provide simple cooperative tasking yourself.
Unfortunately I have not used that platform either, however given it is based on wiring, my guess it that it does not provide high levels of hardware specific optimization, if you want that I recommend using it for the bulk of your code but make calls into lower level libraries when needed. Beyond that however, it does provide a lovely, self documenting interface, I strongly encourage you to try it. It will also make your code many times easier port if you switch to another micro later (many systems from many companies provide wiring bindings).
You really answer this yourself here, it could be very powerful but is still very immature, I would avoid it purely because of this lock-in until it becomes more mature, then it is worth re-assessing.
Java works nicely on more powerful ARM chips, that is the only place I have seen it in wide use, and implemented fairly efficiently in a micro (ARM provides hardware assistance specifically for Java). Other than this Java is a poor fit for the micro world, at one point it appeared it might go somewhere but this was largely unrealized, for now C likes are the way to go for smaller micros.
Unfortunately there is not really a huge amount of choice other than C. My best recommendation is using higher level libs like wiring. That gives you slightly nicer interfaces without killing efficiency, otherwise there is little point in using a tiny micro if you need high levels of abstraction.
In summary, C does a fairly good job here, I do not think there has been any motivation or effort to make a good replacement. And frankly I largely feel this way too, C never became a bad language, it is still well suited for small systems for the same reasons as it was before. It provides power, efficiency and predictability.
I hope this helps somewhat, if you have any queries please comment me and I will see what I can do to help.
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I want to learn python, but I feel I should learn C or C++ to get a solid base to build on. I already know some C/C++ as well as other programming languages, which does help. So, should I master C/C++ first?
In my opinion it's better to start learning Python.
I found it easier to learn then C or C++. It has libraries to do virtually anything you might need, and can do essentially anything.
The only reason to use a more difficult language like C/C++ is if you need the performance or are writing code for an embedded system. They are not, however, what you should be learning initially.
C# is a fine language, but nothing beats Python for ease of use.
The scope of Python is quite broad, here are some examples:
Create a website (Django, etc.)
Create scripts to do tasks ranging from image manipulation to server maintenance
Create GUIs (Tkinter, etc.)
Create games (pygame)
Scientific computing (SciPy)
Python can interact directly with arbitrary C code, meaning anything which can be done in C, can be done in Python with a little work. Python is popular enough that an interface has been created for virtually everything already.
For a better look at what can be done with python out of the box, take a look at the standard library which comes with python: http://docs.python.org/library/
In short, if it can be done with a computer, and doesn't require the speed of C/C++, it can be done with Python.
I would say it depends on what you want to achieve (cheesy answer...)
The truth is, learning language is a long process. If you plan on learning a language as a step toward learning another language, you're probably wasting your time.
It takes a good year to be proficient with C++, and that is with basic knowledge of algorithms and object concepts. And I only mean proficient, meaning you can get things done, but certainly not expert or anything.
So the real question is, do you want to spend a year learning C++ before beginning to learn Python ?
If the ultimate goal is to program in Python... it doesn't seem worth it.
Real mastery of a language takes time and lots of practice .. its analogous to learning a natural language like French . you have to do a lot of practice in it. but then different languages teach you different programming methodologies.
python and c++ are all object oriented languages so you will be learning the same programming methodology
The order in which you learn languages doesn't really matter but starting from a lower abstraction to higher one makes understanding some things easier..
In my opinion you should defiantly learn Python before attempting to learn C or C++ as you will get a better understanding of the core concepts, C++ is mush lower level than Python so you will need to make more commands to do something that you can do in one line in python.
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I was wondering how valuable open-source projects are to learn from?
I still consider myself "beginner" due moreso to lack of experience than lack of knowledge- I've read many C/C++ tutorials and taken classes and such, but I just really lack experience. Therefore, even though I understand the major data types and coding techniques, I don't have a solid grasp on what approach to take to use them in my own programming. Therefore, while I continue to read/practice/learn, I have been downloading lots of open-source code (random applications, emulators, games). It is worthwhile looking at them to help learn? I find it extremely interesting, but more often than not just get lost.
Second question, where does one usually start when doing this? Do you hunt down a main() function somewhere? Do you look at headers to see what functions will be available throughout the code and get an idea of what is around to work with?
Please let me know!
R
I personally wouldn't recommend the reading of the source code of open-source projects to a beginner, especially if they're mature projects. It may be overwhelming for a beginner since they tend to be rather large projects with thousands of lines of code, most likely of a non-trivial design.
If you lack experience, then the best way to gain experience is by writing your own programs and taking on your own projects that are of interest to you, in my opinion. You can certainly read other people's code to see "how it's done", but actually trying to implement those ideas yourself in practice does more to help you understand how to write code than just passively reading code. In turn, the gained understanding and experience will allow you to make better sense of other people's code.
It's sort of like math; you may know the formulae, and you can see how mathematicians/teachers/professors/etc. use those formulae, but you won't really understand them until you try them out yourself. Once you do understand them, then the kinds of things mathematicians write will make much more sense.
Try to focus on things you want to do, there's not a lot of point in looking at code for an application that you have no reference point for.
The best place to start would probably be to look at a project like Boost
But formulate a series of application tasks that you'd like to investigate, perhaps graphics, text editing or socket programming... and then work from there.
Getting a good IDE or programmers editor that will help you navigate the code is a major plus.
For example, Emacs + ECTAGS/CEDET/Semantic will help you browse all the functions / classes in a C / C++ project.
I'm agree with #In silico. It's very useful to see other's code, but only when it's a little bit over your level, so that you can learn something. I've seen quite a few projects that were too "over-engineered", so that learning from them when you can't really tell the good from the bad will be a bad idea.
Another thing is to learn from another programmer, when you could ask why he did one way and not another. In this case the difference in levels does not matter.
So I'd suggest programming by yourself, and looking on the other people's code for the same thing after you've tried it. In this way you'll be able to compare the choices you've seen and the decision you've made with someone else (when you don't know a problem in depth, any suggested solution would seem right). You know, In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
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I'm a high school student, and I have a decent amount of programming experience (HTML, Javascript, PHP, Actionscript 3.0). I know C++, but unlike the other languages I know, I have never actually made any decent sized projects with it. I am puzzled at what kind of project I should start, as there are so many things you can do with C++.
I just want some experience making something - but right now I don't know what I want to do!
HELP ME!
Find some open source projects and offer your help. You get to see other's code and have a goal on what to develop.
Find something that interests you. That will keep your attention the longest.
Pick something you're either passionate in, or something that might help you at home.
If you do that, then you have a vested interest in it rather than it being just another application.
For me, I wrote a small system to keep track of my customers. Now I know there are any number of applications that do that but I just wanted something small and custom so it really worked for me.
After that, when it was working, I then went back and refactored etc.
I see this question quite often. My reply is always the same. Programming is about scratching an itch. First find something that interests you and doesn't have a solution (or at least a good one). That's the itch.
Next sort out the best solution. It may be C++, .Net, Java or any one of a hundred other languages. The key is to pick the right tool for the job. If you try and push the square language in the round problem you will fail.
Programming is not about any one language. It's about finding the best solution to a problem and implementing it well using the right tools. This is what makes the difference between someone who knows a programming language, and someone who solve problems. The first are a dime a dozen, the second and worth their weight in gold.
Write a bitmap parser and viewer entirely from scratch, don't use any existing libraries. If you want an even bigger challenge, write a jpeg parser, that will require writing a huffman decompression algorithm and all sorts of other goodies.
I did this in java recently for a challenge, the program was rubbish but the amount of things I learnt made it worth while.
You could geek it up and create a complicated RPG (Maybe start with a simple form or console based game to get logic than maybe move on to directx or something).
I made an RPG myself but really never got to directx... yet. It can be fun because the game can be about whatever you want, your imagination is the only limitation. Figuring out the logic is a great way to stimulate your brain and learn new techniques in the process.
Try and find a copy of The OpenGL Programming Guide and have fun with some graphics programming. Old editions can usually be had cheaply.
The examples are all in C, not C++, but its good to get some experience in C too.
Also, see if your school or community hosts programming contests. One of my first large programs was a game for a junior-high level contest (though that was a long, long time ago).