Struct vs int64 value - c++

Assume that this is for a 32-bit application. I have two ID values which together uniquely identify a particular object. Each ID is a plain 32-bit int, so in order to identify any particular object I need to keep both ID values together.
The first solution that comes to mind is to store them is as two separate values, and pass them around in a struct:
struct {
int id1;
int id2;
};
However, it would be nice if I could pass them around as a single value rather than a struct pair, as I did back when there was only a single 32-bit ID value.
So, another idea is to store them as the upper and lower halves of a uint64_t.
My question is, is there any real difference between the two methods? Either way, the same number of bytes are being passed around, but I don't know if there is any special overhead for int64, since the CPU isn't natively handling 64-bit values.

The best handling depends on how the entity is handled. If it is usually/mostly comparisons of the two sub-fields as a unit, then int64 has validity. If it is often inspecting the sub-fields independently, then the struct is more natural.

There is no reason not to use the struct.

If you can't make up your mind, use a union.
Microsoft for example defines a LARGE_INTEGER union.

Related

Looking for a concept related to "either or" in a data structure (almost like std::variant)

I'm modernizing the code that reads and writes to a custom binary file format now.
I'm allowed to use C++17 and have already modernized large parts of the code base.
There are mainly two problems at hand.
binary selectors (my own name)
cased selectors (my own name as well)
For #1 it is as follows:
Given that 1 bit is set in a binary string. You either (read/write) two completely different structs.
For example, if bit 17 is set to true, it means bits 18+ should be streamed with Struct1.
But if bit 17 is false, bits 18+ should be streamed with Struct2.
Struct1 and Struct2 are completely different with minimal overlap.
For #2 it is basically the same but as follows:
Given that x bits in the bit stream are set. You have a potential pool of completely different structs. The number of structs is allowed to be between [0, 2**x] (inclusive range).
For instance, in one case you might have 3 bits and 5 structs.
But in another case, you might have 3 bits and 8 structs.
Again the overlap between the structs is minimal.
I'm currently using std::variant for this.
For case #1, it would be just two structs std::variant<Struct1, Struct2>
For case #2, it would be just a flat list of the structs again using std::variant.
The selector I use is naturally the index in the variant, but it needs to be remapped for a different bit pattern that actually needs to be written/read to/from the format.
Have any of you used or encountered some better strategies for these cases?
Is there a generally known approach to solve this in a much better way?
Is there a generally known approach to solve this in a much better way?
Nope, it's highly specific.
Have any of you used or encountered some better strategies for these cases?
The bit patterns should be encoded in the type, somehow. Almost all the (de)serialization can be generic so long as the required information is stored somewhere.
For example,
template <uint8_t BitPattern, typename T>
struct IdentifiedVariant;
// ...
using Field1 = std::variant< IdentifiedVariant<0x01, Field1a>,
IdentifiedVariant<0x02, Field1b> >;
I've absolutely used types like this in the past to automate all the boilerplate, but the details are extremely specific to the format and rarely reusable.
Note that even though you can't overlay your variant type on a buffer, there's no need for (de)serialization to proceed bit-by-bit. There's hardly any speed penalty so long as the data is already read into a buffer - if you really need to go full zero-copy, you can just have your FieldNx types keep a pointer into the buffer and decode fields on demand.
If you want your data to be bit-continuous you can't use std::variant You will need to use std::bitset or managing the memory completely manually to do that. But it isn't practical to do so because your structs will not be byte-aligned so you will need to do every read/write manually bit by bit. This will reduce speed greatly, so I only recommend this way if you want to save every bit of memory even at the cost of speed. And at this storage it will be hard to find the nth element you will need to iterate.
std::variant<T1,T2> will waste a bit of space because 1) it will always use enough space for storing the the bigger data, but using that over bit-manipulation will increase the speed and the readability of the code. (And will be easier to write)

Is it sufficient that a class is POD to read it from binary?

For a client/server application I need to send and recive c++ objects. I don't need the corresponding classes to do anything fancy but want to have maximal performance (regarding network traffic and computation). So I though of simply transferring them as binary strings. Basicly I want to be able to do the following
//Create original object
MyClass oldObj();
//save to char array
char* save = new char[sizeof(MyClass)];
memcpy(save, &oldObj, sizeof(MyClass));
//Somewhere of course there would be the transfer to the client/server
//Read back from char array
MyClass newObj();
memcpy(&newObj, save, sizeof(MyClass));
My question: What does my class need to fullfill in order for this to work?
Naturaly Pointers as members won't work when transferring to another application. But is it sufficient that my Class is considered POD (in c++03 and/or c++11) and does not have any pointers or equivalents (like STL containers) as members?
Both machines need to:
Have the same Endianess (for int)
The same floating point representation (double)
The same size for all types.
The Same compiler
The Same flags used to build the application.
Pointers dont transfer well.
BUT the network is going to be the slowest part here.
The cost of serializing most objects is going to be irrelevant compared to the cost of transfer. Of course the bigger your object the higher the cost but it takes a while before it is significant to make a dent.
The higher cost of maintenance is also you should factor in.
What does my class need to fulfill in order for this to work?
It must not have pointer members, you already mention that.
It must not have members whose size is implementation defined, like int.
It must not have integers members, due to different endianness.
It must not have floating point members, due to different representations.
...and probably more!
Basically, you cannot do that except for very particularly constrained scenarios. You will have to pick a protocol and make your data conform to it to send it through the network safely.
Is not a big deal since performance will be bounded by network speed and latency, not by the operations needed on your values to conform to the protocol.
How much control do you have over the hardware/OS that this runs on? Are you writing code that is super-portable, or will it ONLY run on 32- and 64-bit x86 Windows [for example]?
To be fully "super-portable", as explained above, you can't have any form of "implementation defined" sized objects (such as int that can be 16, 18, 32, 36 or 64 bits, for example). Such items need to be stored as bytes of defined number and order to make sure it will not get cut off/re-ordered when transferring. Floating point can be even worse...
A lot of "super-portable" applications store their data as text. It's a little slower, but it makes it trivially portable, since text is just a stream of bytes whatever architecture you run it on, and it's ordered the same way whichever machine you use (as long as you stick to 0-9, A-Za-z, !?<>,.()*& and a few other characters - and beware of EBCDIC encoded machines, but they tend to handle "ascii-to-ebcdic" conversion). The other end just need to conver the text back to strings/integers/floats/doubles, whatever you need. A conversion from integer to string of digits takes one divide per digit (using hex or base-36 makes that a bit better, but makes it much less human readable - sometimes a good thing, sometimes a bad thing). This is clearly slower than storing 4 bytes. THe other drawback is that it's (depending on values used) often longer to store a number in text than as binary. So your network packets will be a little larger. This will have a greater impact than the conversion, as processors can do a lot of math in the time it takes to send 1KB with a 10Gbit network card. And of course, you need a few extra bytes (spaces, commas, newlines or whatever it may be) so that you can tell the difference between one number 123456 and three 12, 34, 56. [Of course, no need to use ", " between each]. And you need some code to parse the whole thing at the other end once it has arrived.
If you know that your system(s) always have 32-bit integers and IEEE-754 floating point numbers [these are extremely common!], then you may well get away with just worrying about byte order. And if you know that it's always going to be on "x86" or some such, you don't have to worry about byte order either. But you now may have to modify your code when you decide that "running my code on an iphone would be a good idea". Of course, you could leave that to the iphone side of things to conform to whatever the rest requires.
Other answers have mentioned how it is possible to use a class for this purpose. Personally, I prefer to use a struct instead. In C++, a struct can have member methods/operators, constructor/destructor, supports inheritance, etc just like a class does. However, a struct has a well-defined and predictable memory layout and can have that layout explicitally aligned via #pragma statements to add/remove the compiler's implicit padding (I have never tried aligning a class before, but I think it is supported). I always use an 8bit-aligned struct for data that has to be exchanged outside of the app's process. For all intents and purposes, in modern compilers, a struct is basically identical to a class, just the default visibility of its members is public instead of private. But I like to keep struct and class separated for different purposes. A struct is just a raw container of data that you can freely manpulate, overwrite in memory, etc. A class is an object whose memory layout and padding is compiler-defined and should not be messed with.

Persisting the state of an object that has many boolean attributes

For simple objects, it's usually easy to have a "state" attribute that's a string and storeable in a database. For example, imagine a User class. It may be in the states of inactive, unverified, and active. This could be tracked with two boolean values – "active" and "verified" – but it could also use a simple state machine to transition from inactive to unverified to active while storing the current state in that "state" attribute. Very common, right?
However, now imagine a class that has several more boolean attributes and, more importantly, could have lots of combinations of those. For example, a Thing that may be broken, missing, deactivated, outdated, etc. Now, tracking state in a single "state" attribute becomes more difficult. This, I guess, is a Nondeterministic Finite Automaton or State Machine. I don't really want to store states like "inactive_broken" and "active_missing_outdated", etc.
The best I've come up with is to have both the "state" attribute and store some sort of superstate – "available" vs "unavailable", in this case – and each of the booleans. That way I could have a guard-like method when transitioning.
Has anyone else run into this problem and come up with a good solution to tracking states?
Have you considered serializing the "state" to a bit mask and storing it in an integer column in a database? Let's say an entity can be active or inactive, available or unavailable, or working or broken in any combination.
You could store each state as a bit; either on or off. This way a value of 111 would be active, available, and working, while a value of 000 would be inactive, unavailable, and broken.
You could then query for specific combinations using the appropriate bit mask or deserialize the entity to a class with boolean values for each state you are wanting to track. It would also be relatively cheap to add states to an object and would not break already serialized objects.
Same as the answer above but more practical than theory:
Identify the possible number of Boolean attributes. The state of all these attributes can be represented by 1=true or 0=false
Take a appropriate sized numeric datatype. unsigned short=16, unsigned int=32, unsigned long=64, if you have an even bigger type take an array of numeric: for instance for 128 attributes take
unsigned long[] attr= new long[2]; // two long side by side
each bit can be accessed with following code
bool GetBitAt(long attr, int position){
return (attr & (1<<(position-1)) >0;
}
long SetBitAt(long attr, int position, bool value){
return attr|=1<<(position-1);
}
Now have each bit position represent an attribute. E.g: bit 5 means Is Available?
bool IsAvailable(long attr){
return GetBitAt(attr, 5);
}
benefits:
Saves space e.g. 64 attributes will only take 8 bytes.
Easy saving and reading you simply have to read a short, int or long which is just a simple variable
Comparing a set of attributes is easy as you will simple compare a short, int or long 's numeric value with the other. e.g. if(Obj.attributes == Obj2.attributes){ }
I think you are describing an example of Orthogonal Regions. From that link, "Orthogonal regions address the frequent problem of a combinatorial increase in the number of states when the behavior of a system is fragmented into independent, concurrently active parts."
One way you might implement this is via object composition. For example, your super object contains several sub-objects. The sub-objects each maintain their associated state independently from one another. The super object's state is the combination of all its sub-object states.
Search for "orthogonal states", "orthogonal regions", or "orthogonal components" for more ideas.

Can storing unrelated data in the least-significant-bit of a pointer work reliably?

Let me just say up front that what I'm aware that what I'm about to propose is a mortal sin, and that I will probably burn in Programming Hell for even considering it.
That said, I'm still interested in knowing if there's any reason why this wouldn't work.
The situation is: I have a reference-counting smart-pointer class that I use everywhere. It currently looks something like this (note: incomplete/simplified pseudocode):
class IRefCountable
{
public:
IRefCountable() : _refCount(0) {}
virtual ~IRefCountable() {}
void Ref() {_refCount++;}
bool Unref() {return (--_refCount==0);}
private:
unsigned int _refCount;
};
class Ref
{
public:
Ref(IRefCountable * ptr, bool isObjectOnHeap) : _ptr(ptr), _isObjectOnHeap(isObjectOnHeap)
{
_ptr->Ref();
}
~Ref()
{
if ((_ptr->Unref())&&(_isObjectOnHeap)) delete _ptr;
}
private:
IRefCountable * _ptr;
bool _isObjectOnHeap;
};
Today I noticed that sizeof(Ref)=16. However, if I remove the boolean member variable _isObjectOnHeap, sizeof(Ref) is reduced to 8. That means that for every Ref in my program, there are 7.875 wasted bytes of RAM... and there are many, many Refs in my program.
Well, that seems like a waste of some RAM. But I really need that extra bit of information (okay, humor me and assume for the sake of the discussion that I really do). And I notice that since IRefCountable is a non-POD class, it will (presumably) always be allocated on a word-aligned memory address. Therefore, the least significant bit of (_ptr) should always be zero.
Which makes me wonder... is there any reason why I can't OR my one bit of boolean data into the least-significant bit of the pointer, and thus reduce sizeof(Ref) by half without sacrificing any functionality? I'd have to be careful to AND out that bit before dereferencing the pointer, of course, which would make pointer dereferences less efficient, but that might be made up for by the fact that the Refs are now smaller, and thus more of them can fit into the processor's cache at once, and so on.
Is this a reasonable thing to do? Or am I setting myself up for a world of hurt? And if the latter, how exactly would that hurt be visited upon me? (Note that this is code that needs to run correctly in all reasonably modern desktop environments, but it doesn't need to run in embedded machines or supercomputers or anything exotic like that)
If you want to use only the standard facilities and not rely on any implementation then with C++0x there are ways to express alignment (here is a recent question I answered). There's also std::uintptr_t to reliably get an unsigned integral type large enough to hold a pointer. Now the one thing guaranteed is that a conversion from the pointer type to std::[u]intptr_t and back to that same type yields the original pointer.
I suppose you could argue that if you can get back the original std::intptr_t (with masking), then you can get the original pointer. I don't know how solid this reasoning would be.
[edit: thinking about it there's no guarantee that an aligned pointer takes any particular form when converted to an integral type, e.g. one with some bits unset. probably too much of a stretch here]
The problem here is that it is entirely machine-dependent. It isn't something one often sees in C or C++ code, but it has certainly been done many times in assembly. Old Lisp interpreters almost always used this trick to store type information in the low bit(s). (I have seen int in C code, but in projects that were being implemented for a specific target platform.)
Personally, if I were trying to write portable code, I probably wouldn't do this. The fact is that it will almost certainly work on "all reasonably modern desktop environments". (Certainly, it will work on every one I can think of.)
A lot depends on the nature of your code. If you are maintaining it, and nobody else will ever have to deal with the "world of hurt", then it might be ok. You will have to add ifdef's for any odd architecture that you might need to support later on. On the other hand, if you are releasing it to the world as "portable" code, that would be cause for concern.
Another way to handle this is to write two versions of your smart pointer, one for machines on which this will work and one for machines where it won't. That way, as long as you maintain both versions, it won't be that big a deal to change a config file to use the 16-byte version.
It goes without saying that you would have to avoid writing any other code that assumes sizeof(Ref) is 8 rather than 16. If you are using unit tests, run them with both versions.
Any reason? Unless things have changed in the standard lately, the value representation of a pointer is implementation-defined. It is certainly possible that some implementation somewhere may pull the same trick, defining these otherwise-unused low bits for its own purposes. It's even more possible that some implementation might use word-pointers rather than byte-pointers, so instead of two adjacent words being at "addresses" 0x8640 and 0x8642, they would be at "addresses" 0x4320 and 0x4321.
One tricky way around the problem would be to make Ref a (de facto) abstract class, and all instances would actually be instances of RefOnHeap and RefNotOnHeap. If there are that many Refs around, the extra space used to store the code and metadata for three classes rather than one would be made up by the space savings in having each Ref being half the size. (Won't work too well, the compiler can omit the vtable pointer if there are no virtual methods and introducing virtual methods will add the 4-or-8 bytes back to the class).
You always have at least a free bit to use in the pointer as long as
you're not pointing to arbitrary positions inside a struct or array with alignment of 1, or
the platform gives you a free bit
Since IRefCountable has an alignment of 4, you'll have 2 free bottom bits in IRefCountable* to use
Regarding the first point, storing data in the least significant bit is always reliable if the pointer is aligned to a power of 2 larger than 1. That means it'll work for everything apart from char*/bool* or a pointer to a struct containing all char/bool members, and obviously it'll work for IRefCountable* in your case. In C++11 you can use alignof or std::alignment_of to ensure that you have the required alignment like this
static_assert(alignof(Ref) > 1);
static_assert(alignof(IRefCountable) > 1);
// This check for power of 2 is likely redundant
static_assert((alignof(Ref) & (alignof(Ref) - 1)) == 0);
// Now IRefCountable* is always aligned,
// so its least significant bit can be used freely
Even if you have some object with only 1-byte alignment, for example if you change the _refCount in IRefCountable to uint8_t, then you can still enforce alignment requirement with alignas, or with other extensions in older C++ like __declspec(align). Dynamically allocated memory is already aligned to max_align_t, or you can use aligned_alloc() for a higher level alignment
My second bullet point means in case you really need to store arbitrary pointers to objects with absolute 1-byte alignment then most of the time you can still utilize the feature from the platform
On many 32-bit platforms the address space is split in half for user and kernel processes. User pointers will always have the most significant bit unset so you can use that to store data. Of course it won't work on platforms with more than 2GB of user address space, like when the split is 3/1 or 4/4
On 64-bit platforms currently most have only 48-bit virtual address, and a few newer high-end CPUs may have 57-bit virtual address which is far from the total 64 bits. Therefore you'll have lots of bits to spare. And in reality this always work in personal computing since you'll never be able to fill that vast address space
This is called tagged pointer
If the data is always heap-allocated then you can tell the OS to limit the range of address space to use to get more bits
For more information read Using the extra 16 bits in 64-bit pointers
Yes, this can work reliably. This is, in fact, used by the Linux kernel as part of its red-black tree implementation. Instead of storing an extra boolean to indicate whether a node is red or black (which can take up quite a bit of additional space), the kernel uses the low-order bit of the parent node address.
From rbtree_types.h:
struct rb_node {
unsigned long __rb_parent_color;
struct rb_node *rb_right;
struct rb_node *rb_left;
} __attribute__((aligned(sizeof(long))));
The __rb_parent_color field stores both the address of the nodes parent and the color of the node (in the least-significant bit).
Getting The Pointer
To retrieve the parent address from this field you just clear the lower order bits (this clears the lowest 2-bits).
From rbtree.h:
#define rb_parent(r) ((struct rb_node *)((r)->__rb_parent_color & ~3))
Getting The Boolean
To retrieve the color you just extract the lower bit and treat it like a boolean.
From rbtree_augmented.h:
#define __rb_color(pc) ((pc) & 1)
#define __rb_is_black(pc) __rb_color(pc)
#define __rb_is_red(pc) (!__rb_color(pc))
#define rb_color(rb) __rb_color((rb)->__rb_parent_color)
#define rb_is_red(rb) __rb_is_red((rb)->__rb_parent_color)
#define rb_is_black(rb) __rb_is_black((rb)->__rb_parent_color)
Setting The Pointer And Boolean
You set the pointer and boolean value using standard bit manipulation operations (making sure to preserve each part of the final value).
From rbtree_augmented.h:
static inline void rb_set_parent(struct rb_node *rb, struct rb_node *p)
{
rb->__rb_parent_color = rb_color(rb) | (unsigned long)p;
}
static inline void rb_set_parent_color(struct rb_node *rb,
struct rb_node *p, int color)
{
rb->__rb_parent_color = (unsigned long)p | color;
}
You can also clear the boolean value setting it to false via (unsigned long)p & ~1.
There will be always a sense of uncertainty in mind even if this method is working, because ultimately you are playing with the internal architecture which may or may not be portable.
On the other hand to solve this problem, if you want to avoid bool variable, I would suggest a simple constructor as,
Ref(IRefCountable * ptr) : _ptr(ptr)
{
if(ptr != 0)
_ptr->Ref();
}
From the code, I smell that the reference counting is needed only when the object is on heap. For automatic objects, you can simply pass 0 to the class Ref and put appropriate null checks in constructor/destructor.
Have you thought about an out of class storage ?
Depending on whether you have (or not) to worry about multi-threading and control the implementation of new/delete/malloc/free, it might be worth a try.
The point would be that instead of incrementing a local counter (local to the object), you would maintain a "counter" map address --> count that would haughtily ignore addresses passed that are outside the allocated area (stack for example).
It may seem silly (there is room for contention in MT), but it also plays rather nice with read-only since the object is not "modified" only for counting.
Of course, I have no idea of the performance you might hope to achieve with this :p

C++ 2.5 bytes (20-bit) integer

I know it's ridiculous, but I need it for storage optimization. Is there any good way to implement it in C++?
It has to be flexible enough so that I can use it as a normal data type e.g Vector< int20 >, operator overloading, etc..
If storage is your main concern, I suspect you need quite a few 20-bit variables. How about storing them in pairs? You could create a class representing two such variables and store them in 2.5+2.5 = 5 bytes.
To access the variables conveniently you could override the []-operator so you could write:
int fst = pair[0];
int snd = pair[1];
Since you may want to allow for manipulations such as
pair[1] += 5;
you would not want to return a copy of the backing bytes, but a reference. However, you can't return a direct reference to the backing bytes (since it would mess up it's neighboring value), so you'd actually need to return a proxy for the backing bytes (which in turn has a reference to the backing bytes) and let the proxy overload the relevant operators.
As a metter of fact, as #Tony suggest, you could generalize this to have a general container holding N such 20-bit variables.
(I've done this myself in a specialization of a vector for efficient storage of booleans (as single bits).)
No... you can't do that as a single value-semantic type... any class data must be a multiple of the 8-bit character size (inviting all the usual quips about CHAR_BITS etc).
That said, let's clutch at straws...
Unfortunately, you're obviously handling very many data items. If this is more than 64k, any proxy object into a custom container of packed values will probably need a >16 bit index/handle too, but still one of the few possibilities I can see worth further consideration. It might be suitable if you're only actively working with and needing value semantic behaviour for a small subset of the values at one point in time.
struct Proxy
{
Int20_Container& container_; // might not need if a singleton
Int20_Container::size_type index_;
...
};
So, the proxy might be 32, 64 or more bits - the potential benefit is only if you can create them on the fly from indices into the container, have them write directly back into the container, and keep them short-lived with few concurrently. (One simple way - not necessarily the fastest - to implement this model is to use an STL bitset or vector as the Int20_Container, and either store 20 times the logical index in index_, or multiply on the fly.)
It's also vaguely possible that although your values range over a 20-bit space, you've less than say 64k distinct values in actual use. If you have some such insight into your data set, you can create a lookup table where 16-bit array indices map to 20-bit values.
Use a class. As long as you respect the copy/assign/clone/etc... STL semantics, you won't have any problem.
But it will not optimize the memory space on your computer. Especially if you put in in a flat array, the 20bit will likely be aligned on a 32bit boundary, so the benefit of a 20bit type there is useless.
In that case, you will need to define your own optimized array type, that could be compatible with the STL. But don't expect it to be fast. It won't be.
Use a bitfield. (I'm really surprised nobody has suggested this.)
struct int20_and_something_else {
int less_than_a_million : 20;
int less_than_four_thousand : 12; // total 32 bits
};
This only works as a mutual optimization of elements in a structure, where you can spackle the gaps with some other data. But it works very well!
If you truly need to optimize a gigantic array of 20-bit numbers and nothing else, there is:
struct int20_x3 {
int one : 20;
int two : 20;
int three : 20; // 60 bits is almost 64
void set( int index, int value );
int get( int index );
};
You can add getter/setter functions to make it prettier if you like, but you can't take the address of a bitfield, and they can't participate in an array. (Of course, you can have an array of the struct.)
Use as:
int20_x3 *big_array = new int20_x3[ array_size / 3 + 1 ];
big_array[ index / 3 ].set( index % 3, value );
You can use C++ std::bitset. Store everything in a bitset and access your data using the correct index (x20).
Your not going to be able to get exactly 20 bits as a type(even with a bit packed struct), as it will always be aligned (at smallest grainularity) to a byte. Imo the only way to go, if you must have 20 bits, is to create a bitstream to handle the data(which you can overload to accept indexing etc)
You can use the union keyword to create a bit field. I've used it way back when bit fields were a necessity. Otherwise, you can create a class that holds 3 bytes, but through bitwise operations exposes just the most significant 20.
As far as I know that isn't possible.
The easiest option would be to define a custom type, that uses an int32_t as the backing storage, and implements appropriate maths as override operators.
For better storage density, you could store 3 int20 in a single int64_t value.
Just an idea: use optimized storage (5 bytes for two instances), and for operations, convert it into 32-bit int and then back.
While its possible to do this a number of ways.
One possibilty would be to use bit twidling to store them as the left and right parts of a 5 byte array with a class to store/retrieve which converts yoiur desired array entry to an array entry in byte5[] array and extracts the left ot right half as appropriate.
However on most hardware requires integers to be word aligned so as well as the bit twiddling to extract the integer you would need some bit shifiting to align it properly.
I think it would be more efficient to increase your swap space and let virtual memory take care of your large array (after all 20 vs 32 is not much of a saving!) always assuming you have a 64 bit OS.