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While developing a new product, we decided to go for a mix of C++ and C#, haven been told that bridging them to allow the C# code to call the C++ code would be easy (spoiler, it's not).
We're pretty experienced C++ programmers and not at all C# programmers so we pretty much just had to believe what we've read. A few attempts to call C and Objective-C was promising and we even found a few articles that showed how to make an unmanaged C++ class available in C# -- or at least we thought. The C++ code in the articles, wasn't C++, but instead the horrible monster C++/CLI that Microsoft seems to think is C++. Since we're doing the C# stuff to get some bits "for free" in macOS and Windows, C++/CLI isn't an option either :-(.
Anyway, plenty of people have claimed that it's easy to call C++ code from some specific programming language, but so far, I haven't seen a single one that will allow me to do so (I haven't been paying too much attention to this, so please provide me with an obvious example). C++ invariably always means C with no C++ stuff at all; no namespaces, classes, no stl, lambdas or anything. Just plain dumb C.
So, are there any languages, besides C++(/CLI) that will allow me to do the following:
Create an instance of a class, using a C++ constructor, and dispatch it with a C++ destructor.
Call member functions on an object ( foo f; f.foo();) with a C++ class.
Use std::vector, std::find_if, std::string and other stuff from the stl. Complete coverage of the stl is not required.
Use overloaded functions (i.e. f(), f(int), f(std::string))
Use overloaded operators (foo operator + (foo, foo))
Use C++11, C++14 and/or C++17 features.
Use RAII (rather important IMHO).
Use namespaces.
No. There is no such language.
Unless you count Objective-C++. But that falls pretty much in the same bucket as C++/CLI, in being C++ with some extensions. And C++/CX is another such beast.
There are some interop tools that can work with C++ classes (SWIG for example), but I have never heard of a tool that is capable of instantiating C++ templates (like vector or find_if) on demand.
What languages will call C++ with no explicit bridging?
The short answer to this question is: NONE
Remember that a programming language is a specification written in some technical report, usually in English. For examples, read n1570 (the spec of C11) or R5RS (the spec of Scheme). For C++, see n3337.
Actually, you are interested in implementations, e.g. in compilers and interpreters for your programming languages. These implementations are practically software. And then the answer might become: it depends (notably on the ABI used & targetted by your compiler and system).
See for examples this list of ABIs for Linux.
plenty of people have claimed that it's easy to call C++ code from some specific programming language,
The C calling conventions are quite common, and it might help to declare every C++ function callable from outside as extern "C". But there is no silver bullet, and details matter a lot.
So, are there any languages, besides C++(/CLI) that will allow me to do the following:
list of C++ features skipped
Probably not.
You probably need at least to understand more about memory management approaches. I recommend understanding more about garbage collection, e.g. by reading the GC handbook (at least for underlying concepts & terminology). Learn more about foreign function interfaces (in some cases, the libffi might help) and language bindings.
You might also consider generating some of the C++ or C glue code, maybe with SWIG (or write your own C++ glue code generator).
On operating systems providing dynamic linking capable of loading plugins at runtime (e.g. Linux with dlopen(3)/dlsym(3); but other OSes often have similar facilities) you could even consider generating some C or C++ glue code at runtime in some temporary file, compile it as a temporary plugin, and dynamically loading that plugin. You could also consider JIT-compiling libraries like GCCJIT or LLVM (or libjit).
I recommend reading SICP, the Dragon Book, and probably Lisp In Small Pieces. Of course, learn something about OSes, e.g. Operating Systems: Three Easy Pieces. Reading about Linkers and Loaders could also help.
As an excellent example of cleverly gluing C++, look into CLASP and see this video.
But whatever approach you take, you'll need a lot of work (years, not weeks).
C++ as a language does not have a defined ABI (Application Binary Interface) - which basically means that there is no universal standard of what a C++ class/function call/template would look like in binary form on any given platform, or across platforms.
What that means is that there is no universal way to call C++ code from other languages, on different platforms, or even across compilers on the same platform. It also means that the people who are telling you "it's easy to call C++ code from XYZ language" are mostly incorrect (or at least incredibly incomplete).
Where there are interfaces it's either because the provider of the interface controls the ABI (C++/CLI with .NET), or because there is a translation layer from C++ to something like the C calling convention (Boost::python).
Some work has been done towards attempting to define an ABI per-platform (http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2014/n4028.pdf), but as far as I'm aware it has not yet been accepted into C++17.
You can look into using C++ interpreter, which allows for the fine-grained control you ask for. But I don't know of any that "just works", see also:
Have you used any of the C++ interpreters (not compilers)?
I have this classic question of how should the C++ Standard (I mean the actual official document of the finalized ones) e.g. C++98, C++03 be used to learn and teach C++. My idea is only from the point of view of an average C++ user and not from the point of view of the language lawyers or someone who wishes to be in the Standards committee, compiler writers and so on.
Here are my personal thoughts:
a) It is aweful place to start learning C++. Books like "C++ in a Nutshell", "The C++ programming Language" etc do a very good job on that front while closely aligning with the Standard.
b) One needs to revert to the Standard only when
a compiler gives a behavior which is not consistent with what the common books say or,
a certain behavior is inconsistent across compilers e.g. GCC, VS, Comeau etc. I understand the fact that these compilers could be inconsistent is in very few cases / dark corners of the language e.g. templates/exception handling etc. However one really comes to know about the possible different compiler behaviors only when either one is porting and/or migrating to a different environment or when there is a compiler upgrade e.g.
if a concept is poorly explained / not explained in the books at hand e.g. if it is a really advanced concept
Any thoughts/ideas/recommendation on this?
The C++ language standard would be an absolutely terrible place to start learning the language. It is dense, obtuse, and really long. Often the information you are looking for is spread across seven different clauses or hidden in a half of a sentence in a clause completely unrelated to where you think it should be (or worse, a behavior is specified in the sentence you ignored because you didn't think it was relevant).
It does have its uses, of course. To name a few,
If you think you've found a bug in a compiler, it's often necessary to refer to the standard to make sure you aren't just misunderstanding what the specified behavior is.
If you find behavior that is inconsistent between compilers, it's handy to be able to look up which is correct (or which is more correct), though often you'll need to write workarounds regardless.
If you want to know why things are the way they are, it is often a good reference: you can see how different features of the language are related and understand how they interact. Things aren't always clear, of course, but they often are. There are a lot of condensed examples and notes demonstrating and explaining the normative text.
If you reference the C++ standard in a post on Stack Overflow, you get more a lot more upvotes. :-)
It's very interesting to learn about the language. It's one thing to write code and stumble through getting things to compile and run. It's another thing altogether to go and try to understand the language as a whole and understand why you have to do things a certain way.
The standard should be used to ensure portability of code.
When writing basic c++ code you shouldn't need to refer to the standards, but when using templates or advanced use of the STL, reference to the standard is essential to maintain compatibility with more than one compiler, and forward compatibility with future versions.
I use g++ to compile my C++ programs and there I use the option -std=c++0x (earlier, -std=c++98) to make sure that my code is always standard compliant. If I get any warning or error regarding standard compliance, I research on that to educate myself and fix my code.
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Well that may sound like a troll question, but since C++ seems hard to fully master (and I never really knew STL was actually "part" of it), I wanted to know what are the disadvantages to use C instead of C++ when not relying much on OOP.
C++ can have a very much sophisticated syntax sometimes, which is kinda confusing me while trying to use OGRE3D for example...
Non-OO features that C++ has that C does not:
Templates
Function overloading
References
Namespaces
You can use structs and enums without writing struct or enum before every declaration or using typedefs.
Even if you don't define your own classes, using C++'s string and container classes is still often more convenient and safe to work with than c-style strings and arrays.
Type safety (even though some would call it weak)
Exceptions
Variable declarations in conditionals, C99 only has it in for
I'm a big fan of C who over time has become a big fan of C++. One of the big reasons for that is the STL ( the Standard Template Library ) and Boost.
Between the two of them it makes it very easy to write powerful portable applications.
Why C++ is better than C? Besides the obvious list of features, in my opinion the real answer is that there's no good reason to still use C instead of C++. Even if you don't use OOP, you can use it as a better C. Even if you use just once a unique feature of C++ in your program, C++ is already a winner.
On the other hand, there's no disadvantage in using C++: it retains the performance goals of C and it is a quite low level language, while allowing very powerful things. And you will not miss any C feature using C++!
And don't forget the wide user base and the rich libraries and frameworks available.
By the way, C99 has added some interesting features but after a decade there's still very limited compiler support (so you are bound to ANSI C). In the meantime C++ evolved as well and the compiler vendors are committed to providing conforming implementations.
One "feature" that hasn't been mentioned much (but I think is noteworthy) is that the C++ compiler community seems to be willing to go to a lot more work to produce conforming implementations. Back when the standard that eventually became C89/90 was in work, nearly every compiler vendor worked at conforming with the latest drafts of the standard, and (especially when the standard was close to complete) really put a lot of work into conforming as closely as they could.
That's no longer the case. The C99 standard was (obviously enough) completed over a decade ago, but there's still basically only one implementation that makes a serious attempt at conforming with the whole standard (Comeau). A few others (e.g., gcc) have added some C99 features, but are still missing a fair number of others. One (pcc) is in the rather paradoxical position of having added nearly all of the features specific to C99, but doesn't come very close to meeting the requirements of C89/90.
Given the complexity of C++, producing a conforming implementation is a much more difficult task. Despite this, I'd guess there are already more implementations that are at least really close to conforming with C++ 0x (due to be ratified a year or two from now) than with C99 (ratified roughly a decade ago). Just to pick an arbitrary number, I'd expect to see 3 conforming1 implementations of C++0x sooner than 3 conforming implementations of C99 (in fact, I'd almost expect that many the day it's ratified).
Of course, "conforming" in this case means "to a practical degree" -- I'm pretty sure every implementation of C and C++ has at least a few defects that prevents perfect conformance. The same is true for most other languages, the only obvious exceptions being languages that are defined in terms of a particular implementation.
References are done automatically and much safer compared to pointers, the standard library is far more extensive, templates make code extremely customizable and substantially faster and safer. C++ offers fantastic code use/reuse and organization. Also, if you don't rely much on OOP, then you're doing it wrong. There's times when objects are not appropriate, but they're not the majority of scenarios.
One reason to write libraries in C is that it is very easy to use that library across languages since the C ABI is very simple, compared to the name-mangling mess that is C++ ABI.
Creating C interfaces to the C++ libs might be a decent solution, but if you can express your API easily with C syntax, why write it in C++ to begin with?
Many C99 features are very nice, and are still not in C++.
[Note: this is a subjective response but the question itself tends to invoke subjective responses by nature].
C++ is a multi-paradigm language and there's a lot more to it than OOP. However, to suggest it's simply better than C is a bit... bold. :-D In the hands of an experienced C coder, and for the right purposes, C code can be very elegant and simple. Consider the Lua interpreter which is coded in C; it compiles to a very small binary which would have likely been a lot bigger even in the hands of an equally skilled C++ programmer, and is therefore well-suited for embedded use. C generally won't be as safe (ex: implicit casting, requires manual resource cleanup, etc) which is one thing which C++ strives to do a little better than C, but it also won't burden the programmer with awkward casting syntax (in C++ one shouldn't need to cast often, but in C it's quite common), e.g.
On the other hand, and I'm trying to speak very generally, C++ can actually make it easier to write more efficient code, particularly for code that needs to work across multiple types. The qsort vs std::sort benchmarks are a classic example of this and how C++, through templates and inlined function objects, can provide cost-free abstractions. In C one would have to write a separate sorting algorithm for every type by hand or stuff it in a macro to achieve comparable results.
Most C++ programmers who migrated from C never look back. I might be an oddball, but I still find C to be useful for implementing small scale libraries. For a start, it's a bit easier to port and builds super fast. For these kinds of things, I take implicit casting for granted. I would hate to work with any C code on a large scale, however, and have unfortunately have to do this from time to time.
As for specific differences, sepp2k already pointed out a pretty comprehensive list.
You can continue to write essentially C code but compile it as C++ and get the benefit of stronger type checking, and therefore more robust code.
You can then if you wish introduce the useful elements of C++ that have nothing to do with OO, such as a built-in bool, function overloading, and better defined const handling (no need to use macros for literal constant symbols).
It is not even too much of a stretch to using some of the easier to understand and use elements of the standard library such as std::string and iostreams, and even std::vector as a "better array"; you do not have to learn much C++ or understand OOP to take advantage of these improved interfaces.
Between OOP an procedural programming there is an intermediate Object Based Programming, which C++ supports and which is simpler to understand and learn and almost as useful as full OOP. Basically it uses abstract data types rather than full classes and eschews inheritance and polymorphism. To be honest it is what many C++ programmers write in any case.
Other than the upsides that sepp2k noted (and I aggree with) it certainly also has some little downsides that have not directly to do with OO. Come to mind the lack of __VA_ARGS__ for the preprocessor and the context sensitivity. Consider something like:
switch (argc) {
case 1: /* empty statement */;
toto T;
case 2: break;
}
In C, whenever the compiler encounters such a piece of code, and argc and toto are known, this is valid. (Sure we might get a warning for the unitialized T afterwards, whence we use it.)
In C++ this depends on the type toto. If it is a POD, everything is fine (well, as fine as for C). If it has a constructor the code is not valid: jump to case label crosses initialization of 'toto T'.
So in some sense, for C++ you must understand the underlying types to see if a control flow is valid.
I got a comment to an answer I posted on a C question, where the commenter suggested the code should be written to compile with a C++ compiler, since the original question mentioned the code should be "portable".
Is this a common interpretation of "portable C"? As I said in a further comment to that answer, it's totally surprising to me, I consider portability to mean something completely different, and see very little benefit in writing C code that is also legal C++.
The current C++ (1998) standard incorporates the C (1989) standard. Some fine print regarding type safety put aside, that means "good" C89 should compile fine in a C++ compiler.
The problem is that the current C standard is that of 1999 (C99) - which is not yet officially part of the C++ standard (AFAIK)(*). That means that many of the "nicer" features of C99 (long long int, stdint.h, ...), while supported by many C++ compilers, are not strictly compliant.
"Portable" C means something else entirely, and has little to do with official ISO/ANSI standards. It means that your code does not make assumptions on the host environment. (The size of int, endianess, non-standard functions or errno numbers, stuff like that.)
From a coding style guide I once wrote for a cross-platform project:
Cross-Platform DNA (Do Not Assume)
There are no native datatypes. The only datatypes you might use are those declared in the standard library.
char, short, int and long are of different size each, just like float, double, and long double.
int is not 32 bits.
char is neither signed nor unsigned.
char cannot hold a number, only characters.
Casting a short type into a longer one (int -> long) breaks alignment rules of the CPU.
int and int* are of different size.
int* and long* are of different size (as are pointers to any other datatype).
You do remember the native datatypes do not even exist?
'a' - 'A' does not yield the same result as 'z' - 'Z'.
'Z' - 'A' does not yield the same result as 'z' - 'a', and is not equal to 25.
You cannot do anything with a NULL pointer except test its value; dereferencing it will crash the system.
Arithmetics involving both signed and unsigned types do not work.
Alignment rules for datatypes change randomly.
Internal layout of datatypes changes randomly.
Specific behaviour of over- and underflows changes randomly.
Function-call ABIs change randomly.
Operands are evaluated in random order.
Only the compiler can work around this randomness. The randomness will change with the next release of the CPU / OS / compiler.
For pointers, == and != only work for pointers to the exact same datatype.
<, > work only for pointers into the same array. They work only for char's explicitly declared unsigned.
You still remember the native datatypes do not exist?
size_t (the type of the return value of sizeof) can not be cast into any other datatype.
ptrdiff_t (the type of the return value of substracting one pointer from the other) can not be cast into any other datatype.
wchar_t (the type of a "wide" character, the exact nature of which is implementation-defined) can not be cast into any other datatype.
Any ..._t datatype cannot be cast into any other datatype
(*): This was true at the time of writing. Things have changed a bit with C++11, but the gist of my answer holds true.
No. My response Why artificially limit your code to C? has some examples of standards-compliant C99 not compiling as C++; earlier C had fewer differences, but C++ has stronger typing and different treatment of the (void) function argument list.
As to whether there is benefit to making C 'portable' to C++ - the particular project which was referenced in that answer was a virtual machine for a traits based language, so doesn't fit the C++ object model, and has a lot of cases where you are pulling void* of the interpreter's stack and then converting to structs representing the layout of built-in object types. To make the code 'portable' to C++ it would have add a lot of casts, which do nothing for type safety.
Portability means writing your code so that it compiles and has the same behaviour using different compilers and/or different platforms (i.e. relying on behaviour mandated by the ISO standard(s) wherever possible).
Getting it to compile using a different language's compiler is a nice-to-have (perhaps) but I don't think that's what is meant by portability. Since C++ and C are now diverging more and more, this will be harder to achieve.
On the other hand, when writing C code I would still avoid using "class" as an identifier for example.
No, "portable" doesn't mean "compiles on a C++ compiler", it means "compiles on any Standard comformant C compiler" with consistent, defined behavior.
And don't deprive yourself of, say, C99 improvements just to maintain C++ compatibility.
But as long as maintaining compatibility doesn't tie your hands, if you can avoid using "class" and "virtual" and the the like, all the better. If you're writing open source, someone may want to port your code to C++; if you're wring for hire, you company/client may want to port sometime in the future. hey, maybe you'll even want to port it to C++ in the future
Being a "good steward" not leaving rubbish around the campfire, is just good karma in whatever you do.
And please, do try to keep incompatibilities out of your headers. Even if your code is never ported, people may need to link to it from C++, so having a header that doesn't use any C++ reserved words, is cool.
It depends. If you're doing something that might be useful to a C++ user, then it might be a good idea. If you're doing something that C++ users would never need but that C users might find convenient, don't bother making it C++ compliant.
If you're writing a program that does something a lot of people do, you might consider making it as widely-usable as possible. If you're writing an addition to the Linux kernel, you can throw C++ compatability out the window - it'll never be needed.
Try to guess who might use your code, and if you think a lot of C++ fans might find your code useful, consider making it C++ friendly. However, if you don't think most C++ programmers would need it (i.e. it's a feature that is already fairly standardized in C++), don't bother.
It is definitely common practice to compile C code using a C++ compiler in order to do stricter type checking. Though there are C-specific tools to do that like lint, it is more convenient to use a C++ compiler.
Using a C++ compiler to compile C code means that you commonly have to surround your includes with extern "C" blocks to tell the compiler not to mangle function names. However this is not legal C syntax. Effectively you are using C++ syntax and your code which is supposedly C, is actually C++. Also a tendency to use "C++ convenience" starts to creep in like using unnamed unions.
If you need to keep your code strictly C, you need to be careful.
FWIW, once a project gains a certain size and momentum, it is not unlikely that it may actually benefit from C++ compatibility: even if it not going to be ported to C++ directly, there are really many modern tools related to working/processing C++ source code.
In this sense, a lack of compatibility with C++, may actually mean that you may have to come up with your own tools to do specific things. I fully understand the reasoning behind favoring C over C++ for some platforms, environments and projects, but still C++ compatibility generally simplifies project design in the long run, and most importantly: it provides options.
Besides, there are many C projects that eventually become so large that they may actually benefit from C++'s capabilities like for example improved suport for abstraction and encapsulation using classes with access modifiers.
Look at the linux (kernel) or gcc projects for example, both of which are basically "C only", still there are regularly discussions in both developer communities about the potential gains of switching to C++.
And in fact, there's currently an ongoing gcc effort (in the FSF tree!) to port the gcc sources into valid C++ syntax (see: gcc-in-cxx for details), so that a C++ compiler can be used to compile the source code.
This was basically initiated by a long term gcc hacker: Ian Lance Taylor.
Initially, this is only meant to provide for better error checking, as well as improved compatibility (i.e. once this step is completed, it means that you don't necessarily have to have a C compiler to to compile gcc, you could also just use a C++ compiler, if you happen to be 'just' a C++ developer, and that's what you got anyway).
But eventually, this branch is meant to encourage migration towards C++ as the implementation language of gcc, which is a really revolutionary step - a paradigm shift which is being critically perceived by those FSF folks.
On the other hand, it's obvious how severely gcc is already limited by its internal structure, and that anything that at least helps improve this situation, should be applauded: getting started contributing to the gcc project is unnecessarily complicated and tedious, mostly due to the complex internal structure, that's already to started to emulate many of the more high level features in C++ using macros and gcc specific extensions.
Preparing the gcc code base for an eventual switch to C++ is the most logical thing to do (no matter when it's actually done, though!), and it is actually required in order to remain competitive, interesting and plain simply relevant, this applies in particular due to very promising efforts such as llvm, which do not bring all this cruft, complexity with them.
While writing very complex software in C is often course possible, it is made unnecessarily complicated to do so, many projects have plain simply outgrown C a long time ago. This doesn't mean that C isn't relevant anymore, quite the opposite. But given a certain code base and complexity, C simply isn't necessarily the ideal tool for the job.
In fact, you could even argue that C++ isn't necessarily the ideal language for certain projects, but as long as a language natively supports encapsulation and provides means to enforce these abstractions, people can work around these limitations.
Only because it is obviously possible to write very complex software in very low level languages, doesn't mean that we should necessarily do so, or that it really is effective in the first place.
I am talking here about complex software with hundreds of thousands lines of code, with a lifespan of several decades. In such a scenario, options are increasingly important.
No, matter of taste.
I hate to cast void pointers, clutters the code for not much benefit.
char * p = (char *)malloc(100);
vs
char * p = malloc(100);
and when I write an "object oriented" C library module, I really like using the 'this' as my object pointer and as it is a C++ keyword it would not compile in C++ (it's intentional as these kind of modules are pointless in C++ given that they do exist as such in stl and libraries).
Why do you see little benefit? It's pretty easy to do and who knows how you will want to use the code in future.
No, being compilable by C++ is not a common interpretation of portable. Dealing with really old code, K&R style declarations are highly portable but can't be compiled under C++.
As already pointed out, you may wish to use C99 enhancements. However, I'd suggest you consider all your target users and ensure they can make use of the enhancements. Don't just use variable length arrays etc. because you have the freedom to but only if really justified.
Yes it is a good thing to maintain C++ compatibility as much as possible - other people may have a good reason for needing to compile C code as C++. For instance, if they want to include it in an MFC application they would have to build plain C in a separate DLL or library rather than just being able to include your code in a single project.
There's also the argument that running a compiler in C++ mode may pick up subtle bugs, depending on the compiler, if it applies different optimisations.
AFAIK all of the code in classic text The C programming language, Second edition can be compiled using a standard C++ compilers like GCC (g++). If your C code is upto the standards followed in that classic text, then good enough & you're ready to compile your C code using a C++ compiler.
Take the instance of linux kernel source code which is mostly written in C with some inline assembler code, it's a nightmare compiling the linux kernel code with a C++ compiler, because of least possible reason that 'new' is being used as an variable name in linux kernel code, where as C++ doesn't allow the usage of 'new' as a variable name. I am just giving one example here. Remember that linux kernel is portable & compiles & runs very well in intel, ppc, sparc etc architectures. This is just to illustrate that portability does have different meanings in software world. If you want to compile C code using a C++ compiler, you are migrating your code base from C to C++. I see it as two different programming languages for most obvious reason that C programmers doesn't like C++ much. But I like both of them & I use both of them a lot. Your C code is portable, but you should make sure you follow standard techniques to have your C++ code portable while you migrate your C code to C++ code. Read on to see from where you'd get the standard techniques.
You have to be very careful porting the C code to C++ code & the next question that I'd ask is, why would you bother to do that if some piece of C code is portable & running well without any issues? I can't accept managebility, again linux kernel a big code source in C is being managed very well.
Always see the two programming languages C & C++ as different programming languages, though C++ does support C & its basic notion is to always support for that wonderful language for backward compatibility. If you're not looking at these two languages as different tools, then you fall under the land of popular, ugly C/C++ programming language wars & make yourself dirty.
Use the following rules when choosing portability:
a) Does your code (C or C++) need to be compiled on different architectures possibly using native C/C++ compilers?
b) Do a study of C/C++ compilers on the different architectures that you wish to run your program & plan for code porting. Invest good time on this.
c) As far as possible try to provide a clean layer of separation between C code & C++ code. If your C code is portable, you just need to write C++ wrappers around that portable C code again using portable C++ coding techniques.
Turn to some good C++ books on how to write portable C++ code. I personally recommend The C++ programming language by Bjarne Stroustrup himself, Effective C++ series from Scott meyers & popular DDJ articles out there in www.ddj.com.
PS: Linux kernel example in my post is just to illustrate that portability does mean different meanings in software programming & doesn't criticize that linux kernel is written in C & not in C++.
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I've seen a lot of questions around that use improperly the expression "C/C++".
The reasons in my opinion are:
Newbie C and C++ programmers probably don't understand the difference between the two languages.
People don't really care about it since they want a generic, quick and "dirty" answer
While C/C++ could sometimes be interpreted as "either C or C++", I think it's a big error. C and C++ offer different approaches to programming, and even if C code can be easily implemented into C++ programs I think that referring to two separate languages with that single expression ( C/C++ ) is wrong.
It's true that some questions can be considered either as C or C++ ones, anyway.
What do you think about it?
C/C++ is a holdout from the early days of C++, where they were much more similar than they were today. It's something that wasn't really wrong at first, but is getting more-so all the time.
The basic structure is similar enough that most simple questions do still work between the two, though. There is an entire Wikipedia article on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_of_C_and_C%2B%2B
The biggest fallacy that comes from this is that because someone is well-versed in C, they will be equally good at C++.
Please remember that the original implementations of C++ were simply as a pre-compiler that output C code for the 'real' compiler. All C++ concepts can be manually coded (but not compiler-enforced) in plain C.
"C/C++" is also valid when referring to compilers and other language/programming tools. Virtually every C++ compiler available will compile either - and are thus referred to as "C/C++" compilers. Most have options on whether to treat .C and .CPP files based on the extension, or compile all of them as C or all of them as C++.
Also note that mixing C and C++ source in a single compiler project was possible from the very first C/C++ compiler. This is probably the key factor in blurring the line between the languages.
Many language/programming tools that are created for C++ also work on C because the language syntax is virtually identical. Many language tools have separate Java, C#, Python versions - but they have a single "C/C++" version that works for C and C++ due to the strong similarities.
We in our company have noticed the following curious fact: if a job applicant writes in his CV about "advanced C/C++ knowledge", there is usually a good chance that he really knows neither ;)
The two languages are distinct, but they have a lot in common. A lot of C code would compile just fine on a C++ compiler. At the early-student level, a lot of C++ code would still work on a C compiler.
Note that in some circumstances the meaning of the code may differ in very subtle ways between the two compilers, but I suppose that's true in some circumstances even between different brands of C++ compiler if you're foolish enough to rely on undefined or contested/non-conformant behavior.
Yes and no.
C and C++ share a lot in common (in fact, the majority of C is a subset of C++).
But C is more oriented "imperating programming", whereas C++, in addition to C paradigm, has more paradigms easily accessible, like functional programing, generic programing, object oriented programing, metaprograming.
So I see the "C/C++" item saying either as "the intersection of C and C++" or "familiarity with C programing as well as C++ programing", depending on the context.
Now, the two languages are really different, and have different solutions to similar problems. A C developer would find it difficult to "parse/understand" a C++ source, whereas a C++ developer would not easily recognize the patterns used in a C source.
Thus, if you want to see how far the C is from the C++ in the "C/C++" expression, a good comparison would be the GTK+ C tutorials, and the same in C++ (GTKmm):
C : GTK+ Hello World: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-tutorial/stable/c39.html#SEC-HELLOWORLD
C++ : GTKmm Hello World: http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/sec-helloworld.html
Reading those sources is quite enlightening, as they are, as far as I parsed them, producing exactly the same thing, the "same" way (as far as the languages are concerned).
Thus, I guess the C/C++ "expression" can quite be expressed by the comparison of those sources.
:-)
The conclusion of all this is that it is Ok if used on the following contexts:
describing the intersection of C and C++
describing familiarity with C programing as well as C++ programing
describing compatible code
But it would not be for:
justifying keeping to code in a subset of C++ (or C) for candy compatibility with C (or C++) when compatibility is not desired (and in most C++ project, it is not desired because quite limitating).
asserting that C and C++ can/should be coded the same way (as NOT shown by the GTK+/GTKmm example above)
I think it's more of the second answer - they want something that's easily integrated into their project.
While a C answer may not be idiomatic C++ (and vice versa), I think that's one of C++'s big selling points - you can basically embed C into it. If an idiomatic answer is important, they can always specify C/C++/C++ with STL/C++ with boost/etc.
An answer in lisp is going to be pretty unusable. But an answer in either C or C++ will be directly usable.
Yeah, C/C++ is pretty useless. It seems to be a term mostly used by C++ newbies. We C-only curmudgeons just say "C" and the experienced C++ folks know how much it has diverged from C and so they properly say "C++".
Even if C is (nearly) a subset of C++, this doesn't really have any bearing on their actual usage. Practically every interesting C feature is frowned upon in modern C++ code:
C pointers (use iterators/smart pointers/references instead), macros (use templates and inline functions instead), stdio (use iostreams instead), etc. etc.
So, as Alex Jenter put it, it's unlikely that anyone who knows either language well would say C/C++. Saying that you know how to program in "C/C++" is like saying you know how to program in "Perl/PHP"... sure they've got some significant similarities, but the differences in how they are actually used are vast.
C/C++ often means a programiing style, which is like C and classes, or C and STL :-) Technicaly it is C++, but minimum of its advantages are used.
I agree. I read the C tag RSS feed, and I see tons of C++ questions come through that really don't have anything to do with C.
I also see this exchange a lot:
Asker: How do you do this in C?
Answer: Use the X library for C++.
Asker: OK, how about someone actually answer my question in C?
I use that term myself, and it is because it is my style, I don't use boost, stl or some other things, not even standard C++ libs, like "cout" and "cin", I program C but using classes, templates and other (non-library) features to my advantage.
I can say that I am not a master of C, neither a master of C++, but I am really good at that particular style that I use since 10 years ago. (and I am still improving!)
I was under the impression that all c code is valid c++ code.
Isn’t saying “C/C++” wrong?
No, it isn't. Watcom International Corporation for example, founded more than 25 years ago, called their set of C and C++ compilers and tools "Watcom C/C++", and this product is still developed and available in the open-source form as OpenWatcom C/C++
If it is a complex question needing to write more than one function, yes, it can be wrong.
If it is just to ask a detail about sprintf or bit manipulation, I think it can be legitimate (the latter can even be tagged C/C++/Java/C#, I suppose...).
Whoever is asking the question should write C, C++ or C/C++ depending on the question.
From what I've seen, you can write C++ code the C way or the C++ way. Both work, but C++ code that is not written C style is usually easier to maintain in the long run.
In the end, it all depends on the particular question. If someone is asking how to concatenate strings, than it is very important whether he wants C or C++ solution. Or, another example, if someone is asking for a qsort algorithm. To support different types, you might want to use macros with C and templates with C++, etc.
This was too long for a comment, so I had to make it an answer, but it's in response to Jeff B's answer.
Please remember that the original
implementations of C++ were simply as
a pre-compiler that output C code for
the 'real' compiler.
I have a friend (who writes C++ compilers -- yes, plural), who would take offense to your first sentence. A compiler whose object code is C source code is every bit as much a compiler as any other. The essence of a compiler is that it understands that syntax of the language, and generates new code based on that. A pre-processor has no knowledge of the language and merely reformats its input.
Remember that the C Compilers which would compile the output of those C++ compilers, would themselves output ASM code would would then be run through an assembler.
I tend to put C / C++ in my questions.
Typically I am looking for something that I can use in my c++ application.
If the code is in C or in C++ then I can use it, so I would rather not just limit the possible answers to one or the other.
Not only these two languages are different, but also the approaches are different. C++ is an OO language, while C is procedural language.
Do I have to mention templates?
Also, there are differences in C and C++ standards. If something is good in C, doesn't have to compile in C++