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I'm about to start work on my first C++ project. I've done lots of C# and VB (VB6 and VB.NET), plus Java and a few other things over the past 10 years or so, just never had a requirement for C++ until now.
I plan to use Visual Studio 2008, but I'm interested to find out from experienced C++ programmers whether Visual Studio is a good IDE for a C++ newbie.
Will VS in any way make it harder for me to learn to program C++ correctly?
Will VS encourage any bad habits?
Are there any pitfalls I should look out for?
First off, VS 2008 is quite powerful and probably one of the best IDEs for C++ programming (at least with a supporting plugin such as Visual Assist X).
Beware, however, that C++ is a hard language to get right for the compilers and that the default warning level is quite lenient to boot. So it will tolerate bad/wrong code quite often. It is always advisable to check the code on other compilers as well – at the very least in g++ with high warning level in strict mode.
Also setting the warning level higher in Visual Studio is encouraged.
Visual Studio is an excellent IDE for C++. If you know it from C#, it will be comfortably familiar.
There is something to be said for starting to learn a language like C++ by not using an IDE at all, but by building from the command line. This will impress on you the various phases of the c++ compilation and linking process, and will serve you in good stead if you ever need real cross-platform portability.
VS 2008 is fine for developing C++. Like someone else said I would purchase Visual Assist X simply because it gives you Intellisense on steroids and a better code outliner. Also the MSDN docs you get with VS are excellent quality and include a full description of the C++ language and standard library. On Windows you would be mad to use anything else.
Use Visual Studio, especially if you already know it through C#. I agree with the others that you should invest in Visual Assist though.
You better off with code-editor + build tools
as an IDE, VS is pretty bad (subjective). There are a lot of alternatives (more lightweight, for sure)
By build tools I mean not only compiler but also some kind of make/jam etc
This way you'll be ready for real cross-platform development (first) and as a bonus you'll get the possibility for much quicker and comfortable builds for "not small" projects -- one command builds everything. And while you can get the same in VS (really?) it will be faster. Plus you can have project structure the way YOU want 8)
As for reference, for my pet-project i use source insight + kjam + msvc compiler
I remember a few years ago having some troubles with VS. Actually the problem was with the C++ compiler, because they didn't implemented some features of the language, or at least they didn't implemented in a standard way.
We switched to Eclipse CDT because it was relatively easy to use other compilers, supported custom makefiles, and multiple targets.
But if you plan to develop for Win32, VS it's probably the safest choice.
I'm doing something similar; I've done a lot of Java programming and started learning C++ not too long ago. When I am starting to learn a new language, I like to work through the various bits of syntax differences by writing smaller programs. As great as Visual Studio is for larger projects, I think it tends to add a lot of bulk for that kind of practice. I'm with Konrad on the command line idea - great place to start. I am also using Dev-C++ for the smaller projects. It's a nice, compact little gcc IDE that is only about 60MB total footprint on the hard drive, and it compiles to windows executables without any problem. Good luck in your endeavors!
Yes, use Visual Studio, it's an IDE you already know, so it has the lowest learning curve in terms of tooling. Since you've never done any C++ before, please use the IDE, not a console window to learn. The one thing you will miss is the .NET framework. You can use Managed C++ with VS, but if you plan on using pure C++, with no managed code at all, it's going to be scary at first.
One thing I've always noticed about C++ is that if you expect all the same tools you had with C# to be there for C++ when you start, you might be disappointed. VS is a great IDE, and it's had C++ support long before .NET came around, so trust it, enjoy it, and remember, nothing is perfect.
I asked a similar question here except using C on Visual Studio. Although I personally couldn't imagine doing C# without VS, I find using VS for C an exercise in masochism. I know this isn't exactly the same as what you're asking, but if you find that it is a similar experience in C++, know that it's not just you.
Using VS allows you to not having to get under the hood and understand how the chain of buildtools work. Use VS to automate what you know how to do manually and make sure you understand what happens behind the scenes. In the world of C++ you are more expected to understand the build chain than in high level languages like C# or VB.
If you're using the VC project system, you should be fine. If, however, you are using a makefile-based project, it's extremely important that you tell the IDE about your include paths, preprocessor macros, etc, so that intellisense will work correctly.
Some people form a bad impression of Visual C++'s code browsing capabilities because they are used to C# where there's no configuration required.
Another thing to be aware of: occasionally, I have found that intellisense stops working well in a project where I have worked for a few days or weeks. If your solution is called foo.sln, deleting the foo.ncb file will cause the IDE to reparse your code, and intellisense will start working again.
Finally, I've heard that VS 2010 will be a major improvement to the C++ IDE experience for the first time in years.
http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2008/11/21/c-enhancements-in-vs-2010.aspx
Yes, use visual studio, but be aware that applications that you build with it wont run on some computers unless they have the visual studio runtime redist installed. If you find your app wont work on other machines, go download it.
Related
My teacher recommended us to use notepad++ and cygwin for our programming needs. Are there any better solutions anyone can recommend out there to program and compile?
Myriad of various IDE's.... Eclipse CDT, Visual Studio Express, Code::Blocks, DevCPP....
And yes, Notepad++ and Cygwin with gcc would be a very viable option if you only need to compile single files for your homework.
Use a IDE
An integrated development environment (IDE) (also known as integrated design environment, integrated debugging environment or interactive development environment) is a software application that provides comprehensive facilities to computer programmers for software development. An IDE normally consists of:
a source code editor
a compiler and/or an interpreter
build automation tools
a debugger
A few of them to choose from
http://netbeans.org/index.html
http://www.codeblocks.org/
http://www.eclipse.org/cdt/
In my opinion, a very important tool for beginners is a debugger. A lot of question can be answered by yourself if you have a look into the debugger. You can use the gdb but it is hard to use and understand for beginners. So I would recommend to use Visual C++ 2010 Express which has an excellent and easy to use debugger.
Disclaimer:
The following are personal opinions, related to my personal taste on
the subject. Anyone in the programmer community has its own taste and
preferences an can agree or not. Here I just want to tell you about
some rationals. Consider products and related names as "examples."
My Answer
There are mainly three ways to write code:
The manual one
The assisted one
The automated one.
Think to them as:
Driving your car alone
Driving with a navigator
Driving with an autopilot.
Here "driving alone" means "use a generic text editor, a command-line based compiler and a command-line based debugger. The editor may eventually have a clue about the language syntax (thus differentiating different language structural elements, like keyword, literals, operators etc.) but knowing really nothing about what you are coding.
This is what notepad++ does. It makes coding harder, but for very simple things makes you really learn how to "drive".
A "navigator" is a basic IDE like Devc++, or like CodeBlocks: they have the notion of "project", manage the relation between files and manage the invocation of the compiler and debugger, managing the mapping on their output respect to your sources.
You write your own code, but the "road to compile" is told by the "navigator" you have to trust.
An "autopilot" is a more complex IDE (like VisualStudio, Netbeans, Eclipse ...) that can also "manage the code" providing code analysis for either syntax and semantics, context sensitive auto-completion, code generation for common tasks.
They can give you some code you have to complete and connect together.
They make you faster in producing code, testing it, debugging it, but you must have more trust in them or know how they "suggest".
They can be productive, but you have to "configure" them to suite your needs.
Now: since everything is a matter of "trust", and you cannot trust what you don't know yet, and is a matter of "knowing yuur needs" (but a learner may not yet have an idea abut them)
starting with "beasts" like VisualStudio (that mess arout 50% of your computer registry, pretend you to download GIGABYTES from the Internet and installs GIGABYTES of whatever MS library) is clueless: before you will start using all of that, will take years, and VS itself will be changed 2 or three times) or Eclipse (that has the more powerful syntax and semantic analizer, but requires lot of "arcane configuration" you don't even know since you didn't make the first step in programming) may be an excess. At least until your programs will stay in a couple of pages.
starting win notepad++ and GCC (or Mingw) is just a matter of dowload few megabytes, set a PATH, and you go. Fastest way to turn the key on.
when things become more complex, and require some help in organize them, simple IDE like CodeBloks or Codelite are more than effective at "to the point". I will avoid Dev-C++: it's OLD, and doesn't support the "state of art of the C++ language". You an live with them for all your scolarity
when going to more professional kind of projects, and your experience in "using tools" is better, things like Eclipse, or NetBeans may become more "effective". I will in any case avoid VisualStudio: it's not that "effective". But it is the best to develop in Microsoft environments producing MS oriented applications, especially in the ".Net" world. Something you will not see before 2/3 years of experience.
If you're learning you can download VStudio Express. I believe it's free. Easier to use than notepad and cygwin. This isn't a biased opinion. I'm a Linux C++ developer most days but acknowledge the fact that it might be easier to learn using VStudio.
If you are using linux, you can use kate and g++ for editing and compiling c++ files.
If you are using windows, I think your teacher's recommendations are good. Althought there are various IDE's for C++, it is better to use a simple editor that doesn't have code completion and compilation feature while learning a programming language for the first time. IDE's are nice but not good for learners I think.
It's probably a good idea to go with your teacher's suggestion, since you might also need some help in the future, either from him or your colleagues. Another advantage is that, being in school, you'll probably develop using more than one programming language. Notepad++ has support for almost everything you can think of, so you can use it not only for this course. That way you'll have an advantage because you'll learn shortcuts, etc...
If you plan on doing a lot of programming in the future, I highly recommend putting the effort into learning VIM. Nothing else can touch it in terms of speed and power. It has built-in shell access and it is programmable. It is like having God in your text editor. The major down-side is the steep learning curve.
Also, you want to use Git in-case you screw-up and want to go back to a previous point. It lets you periodically check-point your code so you can always go back. For example, maybe you delete something, then later on decide you want to use that code after all. If you've been check-pointing with Git, you can get it back.
Graphical differs sometimes come in handy too.
I started coding in C++ using Turbo C++(the default program available on college computers, I told them it was prehistoric), but then I found Visual Studio Express and never looked back since that day.
Also since i could not install Visual Studio on College computers, I put a portable version of DevC++ on my pen drive to use there.
Eventually I got the College to install Visual Studio Express editions on all Lab Computers (Once I managed to convince them that it was free with no Licensing issues)
For a beginner, go with a text editor and a compiler. Helps you in understanding what actually goes on.
You could use Dev-C++, which is a good compiler for C and C++, if you want lightweight.
Otherwise Visual Studio probably.
As far as I know it is hard to learn using Eclipse from scratch. But I will get such benefits as fast source code browsing, call graphs, static code analysis. What other benefits will I get from using Eclipse for C++ (CDT)?
I learned Eclipse for C++. It is flexible and offers many features. I no longer use it for C++.
What I found is that CDT feels like an "add on" rather than an intrinsically supported environment. Perhaps because it is an add on. Eclipse is written in and primarily supports Java development.
It was also rather buggy at the time but that was two years ago. I think today's CDT is probably more refined.
Lastly, it took a long time to start and some editing operations were rather slow. I was able to find a vi plugin for it, but it wasn't free and wasn't a perfect emulation.
Today I use a commercial editor that is fast and doesn't feel like it is out of its element. I would encourage you to try Eclipse and see for yourself if it meets your needs.
I used Eclipse with C++ only for a short time, and rather I could use Eclipse with Java for some months. Now that I'm not using it, I feel that some important features are missing.
Eclipse is pretty heavy, but has some great features that I can't find easily somewhere else.
I can live without code analysis and project management (for small projects), but some features about source code navigation and refactoring are really unique and I really miss them.
IMHO, Eclipse is worth learning, even if it won't become your default IDE.
If you don't want the giant size and lethargic performance of Eclipse, try Code::Blocks, which is a cross-platform C++ IDE actually written in C++. They have just released a spanking new version (10.05).
I've been using Eclipse now for more than 6 years and I couldn't find a (free) IDE which has so many features.
I neside the obvious ones (automatic build, syntax highlighting, indexing of function etc)
you have the plugins.
You are working with a versioning system? No need to learn the command line commands. Just use the appropriate Eclipse Plugin (SVN, C++).
You are using a testing framework? CUTE and ECUT provide you with macros to create the test suites and summarise their results.
Another nice bonus: Eclipse is available for Windows/Linux/OS X although it is slightly superior on Linux (due to the easy availability of other tools)
If Eclipse still does not have keyboard macros I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll for development with any language. Better to use vim or emacs IMO, or better yet emacs in viper-mode. :)
Some Points which should be true for most IDEs:
automated generation of build scripts
highligting of compiler errors and warnings in the source
integration with source control svn, git, ... (subversion, egit, ...)
code completion
debugging
other things (plugins)
Eclipse against other IDEs:
Platform independent
Free with complete functionality
I'd say that it is worth the effort to learn it.
Eclipse for C++ isn't as good as for Java, but it still beats not having any IDE.
F3 and Ctrl-Space is a good enough reason to leave any plain text editor behind.
Learning an IDE isn't a waste of your time at all. Try Eclipse, Visual Studio (if you're on that platform), Netbeans and anything you can think of. You might find something you really like.
Edit: Since you specify that you're on Windows, I'd say try out the free Visual Studio version. From my (limited) experience, it feels better suited for c++ on that platform.
It can help make cross-platform development (for Windows and Linux) a lot easier.
Very much depends on what you do.
If you need to work on shared projects that use Eclipse => learn it.
If you just write 10 or 100 lines of code altogether => use text editor.
If you just started coding, go for an IDE that works best for you. This can be Eclipse, but it could be Visual Studio on Windows or Xcode on Mac, especially given the choice of language.
For quite small projects, you can also get away with good editors that support syntax highlighting. Although a complete IDE makes editing, compiling and debugging much easier.
My choice is Xcode on Mac, Visual Studio on Windows. Eclipse only for Java for me on any platform.
Let me be very presumptuous for a moment and tell you what you really want.
You do not want to learn an IDE.
What you want is an easy and efficient tool, that will seamlessly assist you in writing c++ code. C++ is already difficult enough, ideally you should concentrate on it and forget about the IDE.
My advice. Let VI and Emacs to the dinosaurs. If you're on windows go for Visual Studio (the Express edition is freely available for personal use), otherwise Eclipse and Code::Blocks are good choices.
I rarely use an IDE. It is much easier and faster to use a good text editor (VEDIT) and then use make for building. Of course, you can call compilers, make, debugger etc. directly from VEDIT, then browse errors etc.
I have tried Eclipse a few times. The first thing I noticed is that it is really heavy. Cold start takes about 2 minutes on my machine, and subsequent starts around 20 to 30 seconds. (In comparison, with VEDIT, cold start is 1.5 seconds and any subsequent starts about 0.5 seconds.) The UI of Eclipse has lots of unnecessary clutter on screen, so there is not so much room for the code being edited. Eclipse can not edit files larger than a few megabytes, so you need another editor for editing large log files, memory dumps etc. anyway.
A good programmers editor does have fast source code browsing, function lists, call graphs etc, you do not need an IDE for that. The tools for static analysis (such as Lint, Klockworks etc.) are separate tools anyway, but you can call them from a text editor just as well as from IDE. Text editor can be integrated to version control, too (but you may need to do some configuration work yourself).
The advantage of a general purpose text editor is that you can use the same tool for all your text editing, so you will learn to use it effectively.
What is special about IDE is that it is usually more tightly coupled to some specific language. For example, it may contain full on-line help and code completion for the language library, API functions etc. Those may be useful to someone.
To my mind it is worth to learn Eclipse. Or just try it. It is widespread development environment. I saw various fields where Eclipse or IDEs based on it used from embedded development to mobile development.
I've recently started to learn C++ and am completely confused with the choices of IDEs and compilers out there. I am competent with interpreted languages and like the simplicity of using any IDE or text editor and then running the interpreter from the command line. Everything works as I expect, regardless of the IDE used, because I use the same interpreter each time.
Now that I have started learning C++ I am overwhelmed by the choice of different compilers and more importantly, their differences. It seems that things will be simpler for me (not necessarily easier) if, while learning, I use a text editor and a compiler that I run from the command line. I have a basic understanding of how compiling and linking works and I understand the role of header files.
Firstly, are there any books or websites that teach C++ from this approach? (IDE-less)
Many books try to point out the differences between IDEs and compilers by selecting two and comparing them, which confuses me.
Secondly, how should I set up my workflow? (Ignore the choice of text editor, I am talking about compilers, linkers etc.) I am struggling to understand what differences different compilers have and so please bear this in mind when answering. It seems like the most popular compilers are g++ and CL.
Similar question but I am more interested in why some programs will work with some compilers and not others: C++ Compiler for Windows without IDE?
Further information: I am developing on Windows and from what I understand, it seems that there is 'pure' C++ and then C++ that is somehow related to windows, is this Visual C++? I would like to write programs that make use of Windows features but I want to know when I am using windows features and when I am writting code that would work on any platform.
Update: So it seems that I shouldn't be worrying about compilers when I am just starting out. The reason for me wanting to understand the differences is because I don't want to write code for a specific compiler and get into bad habits. Is this a non-issue?
Firstly, are there any books or websites that teach C++ from this approach? (IDE-less)
Yes, definitely. Stroustrup's book has already been mentioned. For learning C++ I'd also recommend two other books: If you like thorough explanations and don't shy away from 1000 pages, look at Lippman et al. If you rather like a short introduction and don't fear a steep learning curve, look at Koenig/Moo. Both are excellent books. (BTW, a good place to look for good books has always been the book review section at the ACCU.)
As for which tool chain you want to use: If you rather have a standalone editor and invoke the compiler from the command line, you can do this with either GCC or VC. This approach has the advantage that it is more unlikely to lure you into using something proprietary (like C++/CLI). If you would like to try an IDE, VC Express is fine, once you're past setting up a new C++ project. Of course, the number of options you can tweak for a new project can be very overwhelming. But on the other hand you get things like an integrated debugger. Note that there are other integrated solutions, too. The most mature and prominent is probably eclipse.
Edit: If you don't mind spending a little money, look at Comeau. It's not free, but it's not expensive either and it's usually considered to be the most standard-conforming C++ compiler around and has excellent error messages. (You can test-drive it at the website.) Note that it emits C code, though. That means you have to have another compiler to create an executable program. But both GCC and VC Express will do, so there's no other cost. (Note that using VC you will get Dinkumware's std lib implementation, which is also considered to be a very good one.)
Use MinGW - it's a command-line C++ development toolchain that allows you create Windows applications. The SO link you quoted seems to have all the relevant details, so I don't really understand why you posted this question.
Firstly, are there any books or websites that teach C++ from this approach? (IDE-less)
Start from reading The C++ Programming Language book. Written by Bjarne Stroustrup, the creator of C++, this is the world's most trusted and widely read book on C++.
Take a look also at Programming — Principles and Practice Using C++. It is an introduction to programming for people who has never programmed before. It will also be useful for people who have programmed a bit and want to improve their style and technique - or simply learn modern C++.
I am developing on Windows and from
what I understand, it seems that there
is 'pure' C++ and then C++ that is
somehow related to windows, is this
Visual C++? I would like to write
programs that make use of Windows
features but I want to know when I am
using windows features and when I am
writting code that would work on any
platform.
MS Visual C++ 2008 Express is a free IDE aimed at folks like you, it's available by download from Microsoft, I recommend you try it out.
Visual C++ is the name of the IDE program package. Installing it installs many things including the compiler cl.exe, which can compile, depending on settings, program written in either the C, C++, or C++/CLI programming language (for the .Net framework).
You can use the compiler on the command prompt without the IDE by (for example) selecting Start > Programs > Microsoft Visual Studio X > Visual Studio Tools > Visual Studio X Command Prompt. This execute a script which sets various environment settings needed to compile programs before giving you the command prompt.
On Windows I'd recommend you Visual Studio Express - it's free and is widely accepted by C++ programmers on Windows platform.
Since you're starting to learn language, don't bother yourself with differences, advantages/disadvantages of compilers and IDEs - leave it when you'll be more proficient with the language and will be involved in writing real program.
I actually suggest IDE approach, Microsoft Visual C++ Express Edition should do the trick. Excluding some fancy syntax most C++ compilers behave the same way. C++ is a language that has a very small standard library (covering mostly I/O functions, basic math etc..) this is probably what you refer as pure C++. For something more advanced you'll have to use system libraries.. In example if you want to write windows gui application you'll have to include windows.h header file which is platform specific and exists only on windows compilers..
If you won't use an IDE, you definitely want to use Makefiles to organize your workflow... and you can make easily from emacs or vim.
Anyway, may I suggest you to use a very simple, almost non intrusive IDE, that could be great for learning purposes: http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html
It comes with the MinGW compiler bundled, so it's just install and go.
I'd say to start out with Visual Studio. This is a great IDE for programming C++ on windows, might as well use it when it can speed up certain things a lot.
The differences between compilers aren't that huge - if you can write solid code in VS then it shouldn't be a problem to figure out how to get your code working in GCC/G++.
As for books; Exceptional C++ by Herb Sutter and The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustrup are a great read.
Visual Studio is the way to go when developing for Windows.
When programming in C++ in Visual Studio 2008, why is there no functionality like that seen in the refactor menu when using C#?
I use Rename constantly and you really miss it when it's not there. I'm sure you can get plugins that offer this, but why isn't it integrated in to the IDE when using C++? Is this due to some gotcha in the way that C++ must be parsed?
The syntax and semantics of C++ make it incredibly difficult to correctly implement refactoring functionality. It's possible to implement something relatively simple to cover 90% of the cases, but in the remaining 10% of cases that simple solution will horribly break your code by changing things you never wanted to change.
Read http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/defective.html#defect-8 for a brief discussion of the difficulties that any refactoring code in C++ has to deal with.
Microsoft has evidently decided to punt on this particular feature for C++, leaving it up to third-party developers to do what they can.
I'm not sure why it is like this, but third-party tools exist that help. For example, right now I'm evaluating Visual Assist X (by Whole Tomato). We're also using Visual Studio 2005.
devexpress provides Add-in Refactor! for C++ for VS2005 and VS2008.
Don't feel hard-done-by, it isn't available in VB.Net either :)
C++ is a HARD language to parse compared with C# (VB too unless you've "Option Explicit" and "Option Strict" switched on, it's difficult to tell exactly what any line of code is doing out of a MUCH larger context).
At a guess it could have something to do with the "difficulty" of providing it.
P.S. I marked my answer as community wiki because I know it's not providing any useful information.
Eclipse does few c++ refactorings including 'rename'. Check out this question here on StackOverflow.
It is also possible to use Microsoft compiler with Eclipse. Check out here.
Try Eclipse and see if it fits for you.
There is a lot of fud and confusion around this issue. This amazing youtube video should clear up why C++ refactoring is hard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVbDzTM21BQ
tl;dr Google refactors their entire 100 million line C++ codebase by using a compiler (Clang + LLVM) that allows access to its intermediate format.
Bottom line, third parties are screwed here, there is no realistic way for them to refactor VS C++ unless MS outputs intermediate results the same way. If you think of it from the programming problem perspective this is obvious: in order to refactor VS C++ you have to be able to compile C++ the exact same way VS does with the same bugs, limitations, flaws, hacks, shortcuts, workarounds, etc. The usual suspects like Coderush and Resharper do not have the budget for that kind of insanity although apparently they are trying but it has been years...
http://www.jetbrains.com/resharper-cpp/
Update 2016: Resharper now does a decent job at C++ refactor. Limitations are purely for large / gigantic projects.
MS has finally done this: https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/C9-GoingNative/GoingNative-33-C-Refactoring-in-Visual-Studio-2015#time=04m37s
They have started doing this about 10 years ago, I remember watching ms channel9 long ago.
I've been using Visual Assist X with visual studio for about one year and a half. It's an incredible tool that helps you a lot with ordinary C++ code, but it doesn't perform very well on templated code. For instance, you if have a sophisticated policy-based template design, it won't know how to rename your variables, and the project won't compile anymore.
Install plugin which enables you that functionality: https://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/164904b2-3b47-417f-9b6b-fdd35757d194
I'd like to point out that Qt Creator (a C++ IDE which is compatible with VC++ libraries and build system) provides symbol renaming that works very well:
You can rename symbols in all files in a project. When you rename a class, you can also change filenames that match the class name.
Qt Creator - Refactoring: Renaming Symbols
Qt Creator's rename functionality gives you a list of the symbol references it found and an opportunity to exclude any of them before performing the replace. So if it gets a symbol reference wrong, you can exclude it.
So C++ symbol renaming is possible. Coming to VS from Qt Creator I feel your pain, to the point where I've considered converting preexisting VS projects of considerable size to use Qt Creator instead.
I don't buy the argument that this is specifically hard in C++. In addition to the fact that it already works very well in Qt Creator, there's the fact that the compiler and linker can find and match symbols: If that wasn't possible you couldn't build your application.
In fact, languages like Python that are dynamically typed also have renaming tools. If you can create such a tool for a language where there are no explicit references to variable type you can definitely do it for C++.
Case in point:
... Rope, a python refactoring library... I tried it for a few renames, and that definitely worked as expected.
Stack Overflow - What refactoring tools do you use for Python?
Well in spite of comments by all you experts I totally disagree that refactoring support issue has something to do with C++ language semantics or any language semantics for that matter. Except the compiler builder themselves don't choose to implement one in first case due to their own reasons or constraints whatsoever they maybe.
And offense not to be taken but I am sorry to say Mr jsb the above link you provided to support your case (i.e of yosefk) about C++ defect is totally out of question. Its more like you providing direction to "Los angeles" when someone asked for of "San Franisco".
In my opinion raising refactoring difficulty issue for certain language is more like raising a finger on language integrity itself. Especially for languages which is sometimes just pain.... when it comes to their variable declaration and use. :) Okay! tell me how come you loose track of some node within a node tree ... eh? So what it is do with any language be it as simple as machine level code. You know you VS compiler can easily detect if some variable or routine is dead code. Got my point?
About developing third party tool. I think compiler vendors can implement it far more easily and effectively if they ever wanted to then a third party tool which will have to duplicate all the parsing database to handle it. Nowadays compiler can optimize code very efficiently at machine code level and I am hearing here that its difficult to tell how some variable is used previously. You haven't paid any real attention to inner working of compiler I suppose. What database it keep within.
And sure its the almost same database that IDE use for all such similar purposes. In previous time compiler were just a separate entity and IDE just a Text Editor with some specialization but as times goes by the gap between compiler and IDE Editor become less and its directly started working on similar parsed database. Which makes it possible to handle all those intellisense and refactoring or other syntax related issues more effectively. With all precompile things and JIT compiling this gap is almost negligent. So it almost make sense to use same database for both purpose or else your memory demand go higher due to duplication.
You all are programmers - I am not! And you guys seems to be having difficulty visualizing how refactoring can be implemented for C++ or any language that I can't comprehend. Its just all about for something you have to put more effort for some less depending on how heavy is a person you trying push.
Anyway way VS a nice IDE especially when it comes to C#.
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I'm currently working on a pet project and need to do C++ development on Windows, Mac, Linux, and Solaris, and I've narrowed it down to Netbeans and Eclipse, so I was wonderig which is more solid as a C++ editor. I just need solid editing, good autocompletion for templated code ad external libraries, and project file management, the build tools are external, so thats irrelevant here, for my comparison.
Thus which is a better choice?
Note: I know I should be using emacs or vim, but the issue is, my theory at least, that I'm left handed, so I use my right side (design,creativity) of the brain more than the left side (logic, memory), so I just simply cannot use emacs or vim, my brain simply isn't compatible, I tried them many times too, even used emacs for a few months but it drove me crazy...
Thanks
I haven't used NetBeans, but Eclipse CDT (C Developer Tools, which includes C++), especially with the latest version, is really quite excellent:
Syntax checking and spell checking
Syntax highlighting that distinguishes between library calls and your function calls and between local and member variables and is even applied to code that's #ifdef'ed out
Macro expansion that can step you through each level of macro application or show the final result even of very complex Boost Preprocessor macros
A file and class outline view that updates dynamically to show where you are in a file. (Commercial IDE's I've used fail to do this.)
Powerful, flexible Find/Replace and Find in Files features with complete Perl-style regex support. It's also supposed to be able to do a C/C++ Find in Files that can search based on language semantics (e.g., only find references, not declarations), although this sometimes doesn't work for me.
Automatic tracking of TODO and other comment tags
Mouseover tips that show the exact declaration of a variable or function, including any comments, instead of just where a variable or function is declared. (Again, commercial IDE's I've used fail to do this.)
Support via plugins for Subversion, Doxygen, etc.
Some refactoring support - rename, extract constant, extract function, a few others
Code reformatter, based on user-definable code styles
You'd asked specifically about its editor; the Eclipse editor is good enough that I use it in preference to the commercial IDE for our product whenever I don't need the commercial IDE's forms designer.
Eclipse's debugger integration (using gdb) is tolerable but not great, and its memory usage is high. A few features (like the C/C++ Find in Files) don't work reliably or require reindexing (which is time consuming) for no apparent reason, but the latest version seems more reliable in this regard.
Can someone who's used NetBeans fill in how it compares?
I'm using Netbeans from time to time on Solaris and the latest (6.5) version is pretty neat. It has all the features that you need, perhaps autocompletion could work better, but I have a really bad code base so it might be the result of it. Keep in mind that you need strong machine for that, if it's your PC it's ok but Netbeans on a remote server (like I tried) is really slow unless you have a decent hardware. There are few simple refactorings for C++ with nice preview option, definitely worth a try.
You can get a whole Sun C++ pack from here:
http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/downloads/express/
Personally I prefer NetBeans - the project management is excellent and I was up and running quicker than with Eclipse. However, it is subjective and YMMV.
They are both bloated and slow, IMHO. Why don't you try Code::Blocks instead? It is specifically aimed at C++ developers and performs much better than either Eclipse or NetBeans.
Just to give 2 cents to the comments about speed or performance issues with eclipse/netbeans:
The only part of an IDE that sucks if it is slow is the editor component.
And in contrast to some obviously superficial assertions here, I found the editor
component in Eclipse extremely snappy. The rest of the IDE is prone to lags,
but the editor itself delivers spotless performance.
I have a 1.4GHz Laptop and use Eclipse with it. Eclipse's editor component is faster (especially when scrolling/browsing through text) than Code::Blocks or KDevelop. The simple reason for this is: Eclipse caches everything, especially the syntax highlighting etc., other IDEs seem to try to do this ''live'' and fail.
The c++ indexer was a cause of woe in versions past. It crashed when out of memory, without it none of the nifty search functions worked, etc.
For the current version I can only say: It is all fixed and it works like a charm.
It's speed is comparable to the VisualStudio Indexer.
If you install Eclipse CDT you get a ton of nice features as has been explained in other replies already, that most other IDEs only provide with multiple plugins. (I don't know about netbeans, never used it.)
The feature that kicks me everytime is the smart tooltip when I hover over some identifier. Eclipse gives me direct access to any javadoc that might be entered somewhere and the file where it is defined and even lets me scroll around inside the tooltip!
So I have every identifiers full context at my fingertips, everywhere.
I prefer it over Visual Studio and pretty much everything else I've tried.
Granted, everything else you do in the IDE could be snappier. For me, the crucial thing is, that the editor is fast and eclipse's definitely does a great job there.
The only thing I hate about Netbeans is that the debugger is kinda slow in comparison to Eclipse . Besides that , Netbeans would be my choice .
If you run eclipse under linux you can use valgrind for memory leaks. Eclipse supports gdb well enough for me, but I couldn't find a decent memory leak plugin, and the valgrind integration plugin is in beta. This blog does a great tutorial for it: http://kapo-cpp.blogspot.com/2007/02/detecting-memory-leak.html . I cast my vote for eclipse on linux. P.S Real men use ed only.
The c++ parser in code::blocks doesn't seem to be on par with netbeans and eclipse ones: according to code::block's wiki, it needs to be entirely rewritten.
They're both excellent for C++ development, but one thing that I've recently found lacking in NetBeans is that there doesn't seem to be a plugin available for CppUnit, or any other C++ unit testing framework. I'd love to get some more responses to this question if I'm wrong about that.
(Also, I know development is always going on for NetBeans, so maybe someone will come up with a plugin soon.)
For C++ I'd have to agree with Nemanja Trifunovic and say you should give Code::Blocks a look. It's free, and has great performance. I started using it a few years ago after switching from Bloodshed Dev-C++ (which is basically not supported anymore) and couldn't be happier.
I'm a huge fan of Eclipse and have used it extensively for Java and C++ programming. However, currently, it does not support remote C++ development. I tried Netbeans Remote C++ development and have found it to be rather excellent and extremely simple. Having said that, the C++ parsing is not as fluid as Eclipse, the autocomplete sometimes gets in the way and doesn't go away, and the biggest problem I have had is the constant need to restart the IDE due to very slow performance. I hope Eclipse can continue to build it's Remote C++ development capabilities and use Netbeans as an example of how to make it very simple!
having used eclipse for some time now i recently took a look at netbeans and must say i quite like it. at the end of the day they are both excellent ides and it is a very subjective choice.
in my opinion netbeans seems to be a bit faster than eclipse, but that might just be a feeling.
I have been using Net Beans so far. But I was forced to switch to Eclipse due to problems in NetBeans. There is a Net Beans bug which renders the IDE useless when you work with projects with a large amount of source files. Many people have been complaining, but it seems the Net Beans team was unable to fix the problem which stops the IDE from responding when it is parsing the source files. :(
Reported in:
Petr Dvorak - Oracle Blog
As a solution they provide an on-demand parsing mechanism which does not work for me :(
Net Beans Wiki