I have an opportunity to attend Sony licensed training classes to learn about programming with the PS3's cell architecture.
However I only have a rudimentary knowledge of C++ and was wondering if the PS3 is a bit of an overkill for a starter aspiring game dev like me.
And also what is the best resources to get me to a decent level in C++ graphics programming in about 2 months time?
I bet it will be fun and whatever you learn in the course will help you become a better programmer.
Finally a question about my day job.... :)
A lot of what you learn about PS3 will be applicable to other architectures, as parallel programming is starting to look like the future. A lot of the parallel techniques used on PS3 are directly applicable on Xbox 360. I suspect a lot of the future game consoles will be going in the same direction, and we'll all need to start thinking about parallelization a lot more than we may currently.
That said, if you have only a rudimentary knowledge of C++, a lot of the material may be over your head. It depends on what you want to get out of the session I suppose. Are you looking for an intro to PS3, or were you hoping to be able to start making games in PS3 Linux the day after the conference?
Assuming you can afford it, the info will be interesting and probably helpful. I wouldn't pass up an opportunity like this unless you feel the cost outweighs the benefits. (I'm assuming there's a cost, I don't really know.)
Game programming resources are all over the net. If you want to do a crash course in C++ I'd pick up C++ Primer by Lippman et al. If you want a crash course in graphics then Real Time Rendering is the best starting place, along with a good book on math like Eric Lengyel's Mathematics for 3D Game Programming. Dig through some OpenGL or D3D tutorials as well; even if neither is commonly used on PS3 the principles are the same as any API.
The problem isn't so much that a PS3 is overkill, it's that the Cell processor is notoriously difficult to program to it's potential. The highly parallelized architecture is potentially quite powerful, but it's not easy to actually get that performance.
I think it's a great architecture to prepare for the future (multi-core programming). However, for most practical purposes you are actually better off learning windows-based game development since startup costs with consoles are much higher. For example, it would be much easier to start coding for DirectX.
So yes, in some ways you're seeking trouble. If you do decide to go with the PS3, make sure to check out the MIT PS3 course.
No not at all, it's just going to be harder if your use .NET as your primary language. If you want to use .NET I would recommend C#/XNA for the XBOX 360.
Edit:
Here is a great link to get you started: http://www.cag.csail.mit.edu/ps3/
I think if you have the opportunity to attend vs doing nothing at all you should definitely go for it. The payoff from learning something from someone that knows more than you is a gift that a lot do not have. The fact that it's from a licensed trainer makes it all the more worthwhile.
He's specifically talking about LEARNING C++ while learning the PS3 architecture, libraries, special tricks, etc. I would not suggest doing that. You need to be strong in your C++ kung fu to code well on the PS3 and you will make a huge fool of yourself if you show up and don't even know the language.
Worst off you will be wasting professional developer's time. They could actually use the info but you'll be eating up time with newbie questions you should already know.
I'm not trying to be mean; I wouldn't go either because I don't know C++ very well. Just try to be considerate of the other people that payed to go there.
I've been teaching myself Cell processor programming (in C) for the last couple of months. It is definitely not the best place to start, since successfully programming the Cell requires mastering a lot of skills: C/C++, pthreads, libspe, the various types of communication on the cell (DMA, Mailboxes, Signals, Interrupts, Atomic I/O). To make this harder, the documentation for the Cell can be cryptic, hard to find, and wrong. If you use a more common platform (XNA, pyGame, SDL), there will be a much larger community of users. That is not to say that there isn't any community of users for the Cell, just that it is smaller. And even though there are other environments where one might find multi-processor programming, it can be difficult to translate techniques for these environments to the cell, due to its unique architecture. Also, using a standard PS3 with linux won't allow you to access the graphics hardware.
But it's not all bad. Learning the PS3/Cell will teach you a lot about programming close to the machine. You really don't have any choice, as there are not very many abstractions available to the programmer. Each SPU on the Cell has 256KB of local memory and if you need more than that, then you will need to figure out some sort of scheme to issue the correct DMA requests to bring the right values into memory at the right time and (hopefully) keep the SPU busy doing something while that DMA request is in flight. Learning the Cell
So, maybe not the best platform for learning, but given that you have the opportunity to take classes from Sony, this sounds like a good opportunity.
In any case, if you are interested, the book from Scarpino is a great reference, and has a couple of chapters about game programming on the cell with the OGRE engine, which might also be interesting to you.
Although I have no experience developing applications on the 360 or the PS3, I have done a lot of research into the various merits of the two platforms. I have used C++ for a long time now, and even though I've built several MFC and BeOS applications with it, I've build a number of UNIX server applications with it, and still the console game environment is significantly different.
The PS3's Cell chip is really quite a beast to tame, as others have said here, and takes a Carmack-level of talent to properly utilize. That being said, there's nothing wrong with attending a course if it's free, especially if you get to meet people that have developed games before and could give you some advice.
If you want to develop games for a console, the best bet for someone with only a rudimentary knowledge of C++ is to use the C#-based XNA kit for the Xbox 360. If you're familiar with the way C++ works, C# isn't that hard to pick up. In fact, I'd argue it's a much smaller learning curve than to make the jump to multi-core, multi-thread Cell-based programming. If you've never developed kernel-level applications before, you should steer clear of that sort of thing until you're ready. Two months is not enough time.
There are a number of points that make the XNA platform very compelling for aspiring console developers, not the least of which is the relative safety of C# vs. C++, and the fact that XNA games can be sold through the Microsoft marketplace.
I don't know of many PS3 games that have been developed single-handedly, but there are a few examples on the 360 such as Braid that are pretty much solo efforts. The XNA examples are also quite interesting and educational.
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I'm a relatively new developer, and I'm looking to learn C++. I've had experience coding in java, javascript, actionscript, and python, but I want something fast enough to do some high performance 2D and 3D games.
When I eventually learn the basics (control structures, classes, etc) I'd like to develop a 2D game. I've explored various libraries for 2D graphics (cairo, sdl, openframeworks, clutter) but clutter seemed to be the most optimised for accelerated graphics and vector drawing.
Would clutter be a good fit for a 2D game? I realise that it maintains its own scenegraph unlike other libraries, but I've developed a flash game in the past, so I should be used to that.
Are there any performance issues I should be aware of? Has anyone else had experience doing heavy graphics with clutter?
I've done a lot of embedded systems work using Clutter, and am now doing a desktop project with it. It would probably be great for a desktop-based 2D game, with certain caveats:
Mainline development on the toolkit is very heavily Linux-oriented. I'm not sure how well the Windows, Mac, or iOS ("fruity") ports are maintained.
Documentation is sparse, and afaik there are no books. (I'm thinking of writing one.)
It's written in C, and natively exposes C-language bindings. While there are Clutter bindings for many languages including C++, you'll still need to understand the C-language bindings.
It doesn't natively use C++ objects. Instead it uses the C-based GObject system for single-inheritance objects, and even if you're writing to it with the C++ bindings, you'll need to understand about GObject some, too.
If you want to use it with threads, you have to use its threading system - not POSIX threads, or Boost threads, or anything else.
It can really beat the tar out of a GPU, so if you're doing something fancy, frame rates can be mediocre on some of the low-end Intel chips used in cheap laptops and netbooks.
That said, you can do amazing things with it. I really enjoy working with it, and once you understand how to do it, mixing-and-matching with C++ is a lot of fun.
Also, there's a really rockin' open-source conference called GUADEC where the Clutter folks hang. If you were to show up there in July 2011 in Berlin with a really fun Clutter-based game, people would buy you lots of drinks.
I must admit I've never heard of Clutter before, probably because it's not a Windows library and the majority of games developers work on Windows platforms. Similarly, most game developers (even indie/hobbyist ones) are not considering Cairo, or Openframeworks either. More common by far would be the use of SDL, although that is not fully hardware accelerated and thus not a good choice for modern games. SFML is an alternative that is growing in popularity, but most game developers these days are probably rolling their own OpenGL rendering on top of something like SDL.
By the looks of it, Clutter might be a good choice, and it certainly seems fully-featured. But sometimes the problem with the larger frameworks is that they become a bit of a walled garden and it's hard to integrate extra bits that you might need - for example, I don't know how well the input might work.
The other problem with using a less well-known engine is that if you go to https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/ or http://www.gamedev.net and ask questions, the community won't be able to help as much since they are not familiar with the technology you're using. You have to balance the cost of that against the potential gains that come from using an unpopular but actually very competent library. (As well as the possibility that these other guys know something you don't...)
Clutter is relatively new and there are not many applications that use it right now. Especially games. So you will have a hard time finding somebody who has experience with it for gaming purposes.
That said, clutter indeed has some interesting features that make it look compelling for the purpose, and I would even claim that for many types of gameplay the internal scene graph can even be an advantage to the game developer.
I would like to propose you another interesting option for 2D game graphics: Qt from Nokia.
While it is primarily a general-purpose GUI toolkit, it has nice proportions not every game developer would be aware of in first place. In fact, it has a fully-fledged OpenGL drawing backend which can be used to draw any widget, and to use any of Qt's canvas drawing operations.
Things go crazy as soon as you start to explicitely using a QGLWidget, which not only enforces GL drawing mode (which is not the default), but also allows you to mix your own GL drawings with Qt's drawing operations in the same context. You gain the possibility to not only use simple-to-use, high level drawing operations paired with a powerful event queue and efficient input handling; furthermore you keep the freedom to build-in more advanced, low level graphics in the future.
See this example. Note that you can mix native GL drawing freely with Qt's Painter functionality (if you take care of the GL matrix stack).
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I'm looking for some answers for a project I'm thinking of. I've searched and from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) the only way the program I want to make will work is through 3D application. Let me explain.
I plan to make a studio production program but it's unique in the fact that I want to be able to make it fluid. Let me explain. Imagine Microsoft's Surface program where you're able to touch and drag pictures across the screen. Instead of pictures I want them to be sound samples (wavs,mp3,etc). Of course instead the input will be with the mouse but if I ever do finish the project I would totally add touch screen input compatibility! Anyway, I'm guessing there's "physics" to do with it which is why I'm thinking that even though it'll be a 2D application I'll need to code it in a 3D environment.
Assuming that I'm correct in how I want to approach my project, where can I start learning about 3D programming? I actually come from PHP programming which will make C++ easier for me to learn. But I don't even know where to start. If I'm not wrong OpenGL is the most up to date API as far as I know.
Anyway, please give me your insights guys. I could really use some guidance here since I could totally be wrong in everything that I wrote :)
I would like to add that I'm most likely looking for tutorials, Linux 3D programming sites, source/demos (google failed me for the most part).
Note: I also understand this is not a project I'll finish in weeks, months and might take years. That's fine, I want to get C++ under my belt however long it takes. I'm just looking for opinions, sources, tutorials and things that might help me (as stated above).
I don't know much about the MS Surface, but I'm a musician and multimedia artist working mostly with code, so... My advice is very much different - it doesn't matter if it's Irrlight, Orge, pure OpenGL or anything else. If you don't know much about 3D prgramming you'd better start with something different. There are several environments for artists to work with graphics, multimedia and code. Try one of them and watch the projects made in each of them on the project's websitees and on Vimeo. I think most of what you want to do is already done, but still can be very inspiring. The environments that come to my mind are:
Processing - great prototyping environment by Ben Fry and Casey Reas. I use it always before coding anything serious as it provides me with all the multimedia and communication libraries i need, it's simple like hell and it's Java so you can easli deploy your apps after all! (As far as I remember there is touch surface library for Processing)
openFramewoks - same as above but C++, but it's less clean and still under development. It's very easy to prototype in Processing and code finally in openFrameworks as the latter was very much influenced by the former. (The touch surface library is implemented for oF for sure)
NodeBox - great and very powerful environment in Python. Has a very strange but great and intuitive (after all) GUI with some very unique methodolody of work!!
SuperCollider is a wonderful sound processing and algorythimc composition programming language with a very easy to code GUI library and graphics API. It gives you everything you ever imagined about sound programming functionality.
Pure Data - graphical approach toward programming. Made by Miller Puckett (the co-author of Max/MSP) with OpenGL (GEM extension) functionality provided by the guys from IEM in Austria.
Final good advice: Books!!! Programming Interaction (O'Reilly), a few books on Processing website, classic work - Computer graphics for Java programmers (great one, really!!). Read as well all the chapters about domain languages and domain knowladge in "97 things every programmer should know". It can really help!!
BTW: if you don't concider heavy real-time procedures thing about Java (Java2D, Java3D, JOGL) - it's millions times easier then C++ and Processing is actually Java, so you have a very good prototyping environment that can produce ready to use Java classes and applets. I used Processing in real-time theatre productions where stage movement was controlling the sound (syths and hardware samplers) all made in Processing, so this "heavy real-tme" means HEAVY real-time!!
If any further questions about this particular domain programming - don't hesitate to email me.
Coming from PHP won't make C++ any easier to you as riding a bicycle won't make driving a car easier.
Now, I think for Linux, your only choice is OpenGL as an API, and use any of the many wrappers, 3D programming frameworks, and what not available.
Maybe you can go into an easier language, like Python, and if there are OpenGL bindings (which I am pretty sure there is) you can use that, that would make the learning curve more easy and fast.
Update:
Today I wouldn't recommand Ogre3D for a lot of reasons (including very poor long-term interface, which defeat the purpose of a dependency for long term usage - although it does have nice performance sinc v2.1).
There is currently a lot of other alternatives which work well on Linux.
Ogre, using OpenGL on Linux-based OSes, will save your life and time, compared to using OpenGL that is your sole alternative.
That said, to use Ogre, you'll have to know a fair amount of knowledge and practice in C++.
And you will have to know about "graphic pipeline".
You can use C with OpenGL, that seem simpler, but it make you loos time by not providing higher abstraction of the graphic pipeline as Ogre does.
And almost all graphic engines are written in C++ anyway.
Now, if you try to learn C++, take a good book like "Accelerated C++", take a deep and long breath and please forget all you learnt about php before. Be humble in your search for knowledge and you'll get it faster.
You'll be interested in:
OpenGL (obviously)
Box2D (a 2D physics engine)
SDL (a portable media library)
You can find basic tutorials for them on the web. However, think if you really want to code in C++. The language is very powerful, but not easy to learn, and really hard to master. Wouldn't it be better to use a rapid development language like Python with PyGame?
Don't get me wrong -- I love C++ and it's my language of choice, but unless you're working on top-notch performance, operating systems or compilers, it may be overkill to learn C++'s up and downsides the hard way.
You need neither 3D graphics or a physics engine for this. The UI could even be done in a browser using some funky javascript.
However, the audio engine for something like this is going to be a pretty complex, performance-oriented beast, and is probably best done in C++ (or maybe OpenCL).
Finally, are you sure you're not reinventing Pure Data?
I prefer Irrlicht as a lighter, easier-to-learn, but less feature-complete API than OGRE.
It's literally possible to write a prototype in a few minutes in Irrlicht, and the code itself is easier to understand.
The best thing about it is that it would interface seamlessly with Irrklang, a sound library that may help you with your project.
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Which sector of software industry uses C++?
C++ was for many years the holy grail of mission critical high performance development. However, it seems that for the past 10 years like much of the development world has moved to Java and C#. My quesiton is this, is C++ effectively relegated to embedded systems, OS, Browser and other special purpose development? Should I let this skillset go the way of the VB 6 and other skillsets that are no longer showing the same level of demand and value in the market? I love C++ and would love to update my knowledge in it, but I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to apply it to common business problems today.
Regards.
First of all, I doubt anybody can give a definitive answer -- there's just no way to tell exactly how much any particular language is really used. Nearly anything you can measure is a secondary measurement, such as how many people are advertising jobs using that language. The problem is that this tends to show relatively new languages as dominating to a much greater degree than is real.
That said, my belief is as follows. At one time, C++ was the hot new language on the block, and there was a bubble when it dominated the market. That bubble deflated quite a while ago. Since then, use of C++ has been growing on an absolute basis, but the market has been growing (quite a bit) faster so its shrinking on a relative basis.
There are a couple of reasons this doesn't show up in most secondary measures such as job advertisements though. A couple of the obvious ones include:
Many teams producing C++ have now had years to "settle in", so the turnover rate is relatively low.
It's now well established where it's used, so positions tend to be filled by internal promotions.
There's another effect I almost hesitate to mention, but it's true no matter how little a lot of people like it: there are both programmers and managers who are more excited about "new" than effective. This leads to a large group of wannabes who are constantly on the move to the latest and greatest "technology" (whether that happens to be a language, framework, platform, or whatever). They get a job, loaf (or worse, actually write some code), then move on to their next victim...er...employer. They cause a lot of "churn", and inflate the number of job advertisements, but produce little or nothing of any real value. That group moved from C++ to Java a long time ago, and have long since moved from Java to C# to Ruby on Rails to Hadoop to whatever the managers are excited about this week.
Lest I sound excessively negative, I should add that along the way, a few of them really find something they're good at, and (mostly) tend to stay with that. Unfortunately, for every one who does, there are at least five more new graduates to join the throng...
"C++ effectively relegated to embedded systems, OS, Browser"
"other special purpose development"
You mean 99% of the code people run on a daily basis?
C++ is still heavily used in many mission critical financial applications. For example, most of Bloomberg's platforms are based on C++ with very little front end in other languages. Many investment banks and hedge funds use algorithmic trading systems written completely in C++ (e.g., Tower Research Capital, Knight Capital, etc.).
If you've been out of C++ for a while, you may need to get used to a whole bunch of now-standard libraries. When I was doing most of my C++, STL was fairly new and you either adopted the Microsoft libs or did not. If I went back to C++ now, I'll have to learn all the new libraries to be effective.
I think most of the movement to other languages is related to web development and web-centric development. The main exception to that would be Google, which still primarily use C++ and Python.
C++ is still valuable for many high performance apps. There are other technologies, and depends on the situation different languages are better suited for your needs. But if you want strong performance, good control of what your code is doing, and flexible networking and programming stack, C++ is still a good choice.
A better suggestion is: let the problems come to you and find the language that best suites the situation, rather than take a language and go look for problems.
Still: if you know C++ well, you can learn/program in anything.
To this day, C++ is the only language which is both object oriented and compiled (or at least, which has a mature ecosystem of optimizing compilers). Which leaves it as the sole choice for most large scale, compute-intense projects.
To me the prominent example is games and game engines - these are huuuuuge projects that squeeze machines for milisecond-fractions. MS is trying to get some traction for XNA (a managed game-dev framework - basically a DirectX wrapper ), but most probably would never get any for AAA game productions.
If I take a look at the applications I have installed on the laptop I am writing this message on, I see a lot of C/C++ and few (if any) managed apps. Examples? Google Chrome, Firefox, iTunes, uTorrent, Spotify, Picasa, Google Earth, OpenOffice, Notepad++, IrfanView... this list goes on and on. I write desktop applications for a living, which are installed on thousands of PCs worldwide, and C++ is still my language of choice. The lack of dependencies (WTL is your friend) is a massive plus IMHO (and that of my customers I should add!.) YMMV though - as a seasoned developer I think I am productive enough in C++, but I can't speak for everybody.
It hasn't gone away if you need to do something really, really fast. If "fast enough" is OK, then C# and Java are fine, but if you have a calculation that takes hours or days, or you need something to happen on the microsecond timescale (i.e. high frequency trading) C++ is still the language to use.
More often than not, we get lost in the hype cycle. First there was Java, then came PHP, and currently is Python. But the fact of the matter is development of general purpose desktop application still requires use of libraries like Carbon/Cocoa for mac, GTK/QT for Linux, MFC for Windows. All of which are C/C++ based. So are most applications written for these platforms. So calling C++ as being relegated to embedded is not right, although yeah its being extensively used now, unlike earlier when it was just assembly or C at the max. In my opinion, if you want a high performance application with great looking GUI, it still has to be done in C/C++.
Different languages are prevalent in different domains. It is interesting that you think it might be rendered unimportant by being relegated to embedded systems when in fact that is where most software development occurs; at least in terms of number of projects/products.
There are many ways of measuring, and a number of them are presented here: http://langpop.com/. The evidence suggests that C++ remains important.
I'm not sure whether the gaming industry falls under "general purpose development", but if you want to develop anything that you intend to get working on more than a single console, C++ is what's for lunch. While many gaming and 3D libraries have extensions for other languages, they -all- have extensions for C/C++.
C++ is still used everywhere you want the best performance. Its major advantage is that you can use literally for everything. In addition to what other people have said you can also use it to power websites, for instance OkCupid uses it almost exclusively.
As the recent Hip Hop of Facebook shows, in the end, if you can afford it (ie. you have a large and competent team) you can always gains something using it. Then it also a matter of scale, other than industry.
C++ is still very popular. For instance, combined with Qt it is often used.
C++ is usually used for systems work, generally defined as software where the UI is not central, not application work -- where the UI is central. So, for general business use it's probably not very interesting and those problems are better solved with a higher level language. However, there will always be low level systems work to be done, and C or C++ is the practical answer for those problems right now.
As a general development language? Well, it depends on your industry, but I've worked in two different industries and there is always plenty of C++ work:
Telecoms
Embedded devices often use C and C++ for core services
Network equipment, often very complex, heavily utilize C++
Software apps that work with hardware will often be written in C++
Financial Services
Trade Execution systems are often in C++. You cannot have your garbage collection kick in when you're executing an order for a customer.
Algorithmic and high-frequency trading systems are usually in C++
General trading systems that do not have strict speed requirements seem to be in C++ and Java, with C# starting to show up as well.
Administrative applications tends to be written in Java, VB, or C# these days
Recently there is a trend towards functional languages for quantitative analysis, so F# and Haskell are starting to appear, and SAS and Matlab are always common too
I read somewhere that Nyse/Euronext uses Java, but that they disable the garbage collector and run on servers with insane amounts of memory.
Ok lets start off with info about myself.... that way there is no stone unturned.
I am a adult, 27 years old. so this isnt a joke or a passing fad. Im into computers, how they work and how apps and games are designed from the ground up and made.
I have ZERO programming back ground. I went to college for the wrong thing. I love video games since i was a child and should have went that route.
I just picked up a book called C++ without fear. i already have went thru the first 3 chapters and im not having an issue yet on self teaching myself this subject.... yet... lol.
I have a few game ideas written and drawn out on about 3000 pages. i took one of my games to a few website developers and the cheapest offer i received to make the game was 16k and 3 months time. Now im not now super duper genius or a brilliant mind kind of guy.... but come on... 16k? i figured... ok time to teach myself how to make these games.. and yea it might take 2 to 4 years but at least i will learn how to code myself and never ever have to pay for this kind of service.
So i asked around at what i should learn and i was told C++ was a nice starting point.... Is this correct?
2... 2 of the games i have written down and played with all the math issues are kinda in this games fashion. www.goallineblitz.com. if someone here could sign up and look that game over and let me know what tools you would need as a coder to make a game in that style... i would thank you greatly for the info.
Where else do i go from here? what would you do and plan out?
I know a have a huge mountain in front of me. and i look foward to every step, stumble, fall and bloodied knee i will endure during this venture...
=)
thanks in advance!
I wish you the best of luck, but you have to realize you're the 1238471920847th person in this exact situation, of which approximately 3 manage to figure out what they're doing. there are even previous questions like this on stackoverflow. The most useful answer is "reconsider whether you're interested in coding or game-design -- the two are not equivalent"
Also, you have to realize 16k is an unreasonable number. Not because it's high, but because it's low. Consider Braid for an example of an "indie" game that was pretty successful. It cost $200k, and the developer started off already knowing what he was doing.
There is so much to learn, you would be surprised.
What I think you should do is find a bright young web developer who's interested in investing some time into a business startup for a certain % of share of the business. You can contribute the intellectual property of the game and the creative direction. I imagine this would let you get up and running for significantly less than $5k including incorporation fees, web site costs (minimal), trademarks, etc. You could save money by doing the business stuff yourself, and by your partner doing the programming himself.
It's win-win. You get your game built, and the developer gets a lot of great experience for their resume (and a share of any profits).
I think you've got a very low estimate of how much work is involved, frankly. Going from a spec to a finished web product in 3 months sounds quite good to me, counting things like quality assurance (a very important thing here) and graphics and sound, and $16K also sounds very good for three months' work. (Seriously, this is $64K a year, as a contractor, assuming only one person. Anybody who can do this sort of thing can make more money than that.)
That being said, doing it yourself will teach you a whole lot. Just don't count it as a likely source of income.
If you're interested in web-based games, you will need to become familiar with more than C++. At a minimum, you'll need to know web design and Javascript. This strikes me as a lot to bite off at one time, so I'd suggest starting with a simple screen-based game, and learning about the web stuff when you're confident of the basic game programming. (Don't just write the game you want on the screen and then think you'll just port it to the web; write to get some familiarity with C++ game programming, learn the web stuff, and design your game based on that.)
This sounds like a good way to learn programming, but don't get your hopes up too high. That's going to be a loooong road.
Also, I agree that C++ is probably not the right language to do this. Maybe you should start to learn programming with a smaller, less ambitioned project first and use a more beginner-accessible language.
A turn-based strategy game is basically a business application with a glossy front-end.
I'd recommend SQL Server for data storage and rules engine. You're going to have to learn how to model a database. I don't want to shit on your hopes, but the other guys are right: you've got a long road ahead of you. Here's some help to get started:
An introduction to turn-based gaming and what it means
Source code for a turn-based war game you can browse and modify
The Torque 2D gaming engine
I wrote the beginnings of a turn-based space combat/strategy game in MSAccess(!) over a decade ago (ugh I just did the math and it's been almost 20 years actually) that I never finished. Here's hoping you get farther than I did. Good luck!
Java, Flash, PHP, ASP.NET, all are languages that are commonly used to implement web-based games.
You're also going to need to introduce yourself to SQL most likely, since data will have to be stored in some manner.
First, I'm gonna answer your technical question.
You will need 3 things.
1- Display things in the user's browser so that he can use your application. This means using languages best suited for programming. Most likely PHP (or its Microsoft equivalent : ASP.NET, less used, and requires more expensive tools) or maybe Flash. There are others, less used options, but that's beside the point.
2- A database, to store your data. The language here will be SQL, and you will probably start with a free open-source database. Most people choose MySQL in this case.
3- An engine to do something with the data you have in your database and the input of your user. Here, since you don't know anything about programming, the easy way is to use the same language you used for your GUI : PHP/ASP.NET. Later on, if you manage to be a code guru and need some performance improvement, you may try something more powerful like Java or C++, but then you will have to interface your PHP front-end with your C++ back-end which is gonna be tricky.
Now here is why i think you're going to fail :
All i said means that, at the very least, you need to learn basic programming concepts, 2 languages (PHP + SQL), and all the associated tools (MySQL, an IDE for PHP, ...). Moreover, you will also have to learn how to set up, configure and use a web server. That's quite a daunting task to do all this by yourself in a few months or even in two years.
Actually what worries me the most, is that you say you have no programming background. This means you don't even know whether or not you will like to do this kind of thing. Programming can be quite frustrating and many people hates it. You should start by building small apps as a hobby, and see whether this is the kind of job (because yes it's a job, that requires skills) that you would like to do. Only then you will be able to think about making this your line of business.
If you want to make web-based games C++ is probably the wrong language. You should look into PHP, SQL database programming, and Perl.
Welcome to the world of programming. It's lots of fun but takes a while to learn.
My advice: start small. Really small. There are a lot of basics you need. C++ may actually be a good way to get the basics down solidly, though you won't likely be using it for your final web product (see other answers for web language options). As you go through examples, think of small parts of your project that you could do with what you know, even if it's just choosing a name and displaying it, or adding up a score. Processing.org is a fun language-- again not what you'll need in the end, but it's aimed towards beginners and lets you get into graphics right away (which is fun, though probably won't be your main focus with this game).
Bonus advice: if you want to make money off this or become a professional game developer, don't release your best ideas on the web right away. My husband created a really innovative game in college, which became somewhat popular on a java game site. A few years later an almost exact clone was released for the Playstation. The Playstation developers weren't ripping him off directly, it turned out the idea had spread widely. While in some ways that was really cool, if you want money or credit as a game designer obviously that's not going to be what you want.
You could approach this from another direction. Instead of implementing these large designs you have in mind, aim at starting with a Facebook app instead. That way you can get some very small ideas implemented. If you try to do something large first, you'll end up in a tar pit.
Be careful of large game designs. Get good at implementing small ones first. You can always build on top of them.
C++ is a good language for learning how to program computers; however, for the specific task of programming turn based web games, C++ is probably not the tool you will want to use for that task. You may want to continue learning the C++, to get a grip on the underlying programming; it may take a while, though. You may also want to look into other programming languages for implementing your games on the web; PHP is good for scripting. C# has a lot of similarity to C++, and has good integration with Microsoft's web servers; ASP.NET is pretty easy to comprehend, as well. You should do the research into each of them concurrently with learning the C++ to figure out which one seems like it's going to give you what you need.
Others have already said this, but PHP is going to be the best starting place for you. For a turn based, web based game I would say use PHP and mySql for sure. After coding much of your game using PHP, you will have a good enough understanding to start moving to other languages if you so desire.
Setup an apache server with php support, and a mysql server (they can easily run from your own machine). Then just start playing with the code. Look at other examples, modify them, mix them, learn.
You can find lots of free tutorials on both php and sql on line.
I started learning C++ fairly recently, also with "Without Fear". The best thing you can do once you have the basics is dive into a simple project, but REALLY simple (like tic-tac-toe).
I don't think you should be learning to program just for this one idea of yours. Learn to program for the fun of it, see how you get on, see what floats your boat. A year from now, think again about your project, whether it seems feasible, whether you want to do it, how you want to do it. But don't think about it till then, because all you'll be able to think about is how you don't seem to be getting any closer to having thousands of customers lining up.
Just keep on coding, and you'll get where you want to be. Where you want to be may not be where you think you want to be now though! Good luck.
It may be of no use to you but http://archverse.sourceforge.net/ is an open source C++ turn based web game. Its not finished but all the basics are there and it actually does quite a lot (though it has no client just a server with unit tests right now). Its BSD licensed so you're welcome to do what you want with it aside from claim you wrote it from scratch.
Contrary to suggestions from others here im not a fan of RDBMS for semi real time games so I'm using BerkeleyDB as a data store it allows me to have ACID and still be massively faster since I never search on anything but a key field and everything is in process. Don't really want to start a flat file vs rdbms flame war but the non open source project this is related to used MySQL and paid for it quite painfully.
The learning curve for C++ can be tricky for beginners. If you can get through the chapters on references and pointers without severe mental damage, you'll probably be fine. Otherwise, you may want to pick up something a bit higher level to start out with. As others have stated, C++ is a great programming language for game development, but it's not particularly suited for web-based applications.
Regardless of your language of choice, there's only so much you can learn from books. Programming skill is very much dependent on experience -- program, program well, and program always.
At some point, you'll probably want to study up on object-oriented analysis and design. If your games have any significant degree of complexity to them, the ability to break them down into easily manageable chunks is invaluable.
Check out gamedev.net, they have a number of resources for game developers.
Game development involves a lot of different aspects other than the programming itself. Depending on the game, you'd also have to worry about sound, music, graphics, animation, user interface, play balancing, story, dialogue, and database design. All of which has to work on a variety of hardware and software configurations. Oh yeah, and it probably has to be fun as well.
Start small.
Good luck.
As a hobby project I am trying to create a ROM (Diku-Merc based) derivative. (Now defunct) I would appreciate it if anybody has done something similar and has some useful resources to share or tips to offer. I'm finding that a lot the resources such as mailing lists are no longer active and many links are dead.
I've picked ROM because that is what I am familiar as a player, but the source is more complicated than anything I have come across and I wouldn't mind picking a code base that was easier to understand. Any recommendations before I dive in in earnest would also be appreciated.
As for mudding communities in general I don't know of much beyond the mud connector because I've always been in more of a user/player role than developer. A forgiving and active place where I can get answers to my questions is what I value most.
After extensive research I've decided to go with a tba code base. I may elaborate later but very broadly
Coding experience is more important than experience as a player and this has convinced me to abandon my roots. I wanted a well documented, reasonably modern, managable code base undergoing active development and this seems to fit the bill.
Anyways muds are truly a labour of love and you have to have a few screws loose if you plan to run one. Moreover the glory days have passed (it seems like there many muds shut down en masse around 2000) and in my opinion the community is largely inactive and fragmented. An exerpt from from some of the tba docs sums this up nicely:
So, you're sure you want to run your own MUD? If you're already an
old hand at playing MUDs and you've
decided you want to start one of your
own, here is our advice: sleep on it,
try several other MUDs first. Work
your way up to an admin position and
see what running a MUD is really
about. It is not all fun and games.
You actually have to deal with people,
you have to babysit the players, and
be constantly nagged about things you
need to do or change. Running a MUD is
extremely time consuming if you do it
well, if you are not going to do it
well then don't bother. Just playing
MUDs is masochistic enough, isn't
it? Or are you trying to shave that
extra point off your GPA, jump down
that one last notch on your next job
evaluation, or get rid of that pesky
Significant Other for good? If you
think silly distractions like having
friends and seeing daylight are
preventing you from realizing your
full potential in the MUD world, being
a MUD Administrator is the job for
you.
Anyways I don't have any high hopes for success, but this is something I will find interesting, improve my code-fu and will keep me busy for many years to come :D
There is no active ROM developer mailing list, so tba definitely is a better choice. There was some effort to clean up ROM with the RaM project.
Dead Souls sees active development as well (the main dev is a hero in my eyes for the amount of work he produces).
I would not recommend MUCK as the userbase is rather small. However that is not to say there isn't good work being done -- look up the user Valente on the code subforum of the wora.netlosers.com forum, as he's probably one of the foremost MUCK developers at the moment.
However if you thought that ROM was complicated I should caution you about tackling an established/canon codebase for any purpose other than getting a familiarity with mud servers. For actual development you may be better off with a barebones codebase such as NakedMUD (C/Python) or even something slimmer than that such as Socketmud (ports in many languages).
There are of course dozens of mud servers you can look at; all will be educational in some manner, but in the beginning stages it won't be obvious what is good practice and what is not. You may want to look up ColdC (similar to LP) and TeensyMUD (Ruby) to study. The author of Teensy, Jon Lambert, has a useful developer site up at http://sourcery.dyndns.org/.
However you'll find very experienced ROM and tba (i.e., Circle) developers at MudBytes, and I'll second Sam to say that is the most active mud developer site currently. It's a little surprising but in the last year there has been a significant growth in activity at MB. I think people are coming in from the fold so to speak and gathering at MB. There also is a good-sized code repository at MB as well.
Your other options are The Mudconnector which you already know, Top Mud Sites which has a somewhat smaller crowd of mostly developers (typically of established and long-running muds), and Mudlab, which is much quieter but usually with a good signal to noise ratio. MudGamers is an interesting new site with a fairly quiet forum, but a new approach to creating a more contemporary-looking portal for playing muds.
Not to be overlooked is the archive for the old mud-dev mailing list. There is a staggering amount of information to be gleaned there. The raw archive can be found at muddev.wishes.net/. Richard Tew also has done some noble work in combing through old usenet archives to find valuable mud development related threads, which you can find through his mud tag at posted-stuff.blogspot.com/search/label/mud.
I should note that many muds use the IMC chat network to link muds (MB has a portal to this as well on the front page of their site). Once your mud is running it can be useful to get on IMC if you're in need of real-time chat to fix a problem (of course, there are many IMC channels and you'll want to choose which one you use prudently).
Despite the fact that muds today are niche at best and unheard of at worst, there is no shortage of new muds in development. They offer a design and programming challenge that is still accessible to the solo developer, unlike any graphical game of equal size or complexity.
Furthermore you shouldn't be discouraged if it feels like you'll never release a playable game. Like many larger projects you may start and abandon it many times over, but you'll be building proficiencies across a wide spectrum of programming skillsets and applications -- not many projects will allow you to take such a whole systems approach. Good luck!
An active community seems to be around for the Dead Souls MUDlib
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Souls_MUDlib
I was an old player of Nightmare LPMud which sadly disappeared. I'm not much in for the coding of these MUDs, but I have been following this community loosely just due to so many positive MUDding memories.
Take a look at Nameless MUCK. It's a solid piece of software.
First concentrate on getting or finding a solid Telnet Socket library going, this is generally the main protocol for a MUD.
Next, create a FULL list of features that you want to implement, you should probably get some sort of feature or bug tracking system setup (even if it is a spreadsheet). Then prioritize the features based on dependencies of other systems.
Check out http://www.gamasutra.com for some architectural discussions on creating games in general, creating basic AI, character systems, and multi-player games.
Once you understand the theory, it is just a butt load of programming to build in everything you want to support.
I'd make the MUD engine abstract enough to run behind both a terminal client, a web-based Ajax client, and maybe stand-alone clients - i.e., don't tie the front end in with the actual game logic. I'm not averse to a MUD actually using a decent font for the text, and real graphics (as interstitials or to make notes on the bulletin board look like notes, etc), not in place of the text based interface) where necessary instead of ASCII, etc.
You might also want to have some MUD script file converters into your own format, so that you don't have to spend ages creating zones.
I find the problem with MUDs is that there is too much emphasis on killing NPCs, and not many puzzles or other interesting aspects. So a more interesting, story-oriented (possibly to the extend of sharding zones for single-player or single-team use) engine could be a nice feature to have.
I will take this opportunity to recommend MudBytes, which is probably the most active MUD developer site available right now.