For once, I have come across a lot of stuff about the use of C++ being not advisable for SSS and recommending the use of so called interpreted languages like PERL and PHP for the same. But I need the advanced OO features and flexibility of C++ to ensure a scalable and more manageable code.
I have tried many internet articles and searches and none where helpful to the point that I still have no idea if it is possible to write SS-Scripts in C++ and if yes, then how.
I have thought of couple ideas, including writing a web-server in C++ and responding accordingly after parsing the HTTP request. But it would be re-inventing the wheel and I'll end up deviating from my main project and dedicating a lot of work to ensure a functional-cum-secure HTTP server.
I have also considered PHP extensions but again the approach also comes with its own baggage and overhead.
My questions are:
Is it possible to program SSS in C++?
If yes, then what are the approaches at my disposal.
Thanks!
Ignoring, for the moment, the advisability of using C++ for SSS, your first choice would probably be Wt. Contrary to the implications in some of the other answers, no development time is not likely to increase by 10x (or anywhere close to it). No, you're not missing all the nice infrastructure features you'd expect in things like PHP, Perl or Python either.
In fact, my own experience is rather the opposite: while PHP (for example) makes it pretty easy to get a web site up and running fairly quickly, producing a web site that's really stable, secure, and responsive is a whole different story. With Wt, rather the opposite seems to be the case (at least in my, admittedly limited, experience). Getting the initial site up and running will probably take a little longer -- but about as soon as it looks, acts, and feels the way you want, it's likely to need only rather minor tweaks to be ready for public use.
Getting back to the advisability question: developing in C++ may be a bit more complex than in some languages that are more common in the SSS market -- but it's still a piece of cake compared to doing security well. If somebody has even the slightest difficulty writing C++ (e.g., tracking and freeing memory when it's no longer needed), I definitely don't want them getting close to the code for my web site.
I wouldn't recommend it, but you can certainly write CGI scripts in C++ (or in C, or in FORTRAN). But why bother? Languages like PHP do a much better job more easily, and they seem to scale well for some pretty major sites.
CGI is the "standard" way to have C or C++ code handling web requests, but you might also look into writing a module that gets linked into the web server at runtime. Google for "apache module API" (if using Apache) or "IIS module" (if using IIS).
Can you afford 10x as much development time? All the infrastructure-ish bits that you take for granted in php, perl, python are non existent or much harder to use in C++.
I see only two valid reasons to do this:
1. You only have C++ on your platform.
2. The server really has very high performance needs that would benefit from problem specific optimizations.
You can write a CGI application in C++ using an appropriate framework (like this one). But I'd recommend just going with perl or php. It will save you much time. Those tools are just better suited for this kind of job.
EDIT: corrected the link
I couldn't understand your exact requirements (license, etc) but this might be what you are looking for http://cppcms.sourceforge.net.
The simulation tool I have developed over the past couple of years, is written in C++ and currently has a tcl interpreted front-end. It was written such that it can be run either in an interactive shell, or by passing an input file. Either way, the input file is written in tcl (with many additional simulation-specific commands I have added). This allows for quite powerful input files (e.g.- when running monte-carlo sims, random distributions can be programmed as tcl procedures directly in the input file).
Unfortunately, I am finding that the tcl interpreter is becoming somewhat limited compared to what more modern interpreted languages have to offer, and its syntax seems a bit arcane. Since the computational engine was written as a library with a c-compatible API, it should be straightforward to write alternative front-ends, and I am thinking of moving to a new interpreter, however I am having a bit of a time choosing (mostly because I don't have significant experience with many interpreted languages). The options I have begun to explore are as follows:
Remaining with tcl:
Pros:
- No need to change the existing code.
- Existing input files stay the same. (though I'd probably keep the tcl front end as an option)
- Mature language with lots of community support.
Cons:
- Feeling limited by the language syntax.
- Getting complaints from users as to the difficulty of learning tcl.
Python:
Pros:
- Modern interpreter, known to be quite efficient.
- Large, active community.
- Well known scientific and mathematical modules, such as scipy.
- Commonly used in the academic Scientific/engineering community (typical users of my code)
Cons:
- I've never used it and thus would take time to learn the language (this is also a pro, as I've been meaning to learn python for quite some time)
- Strict formatting of the input files (indentation, etc..)
Matlab:
Pros:
- Very power and widely used mathematical tool
- Powerful built-in visualization/plotting.
- Extensible, through community submitted code, as well as commercial toolboxes.
- Many in science/engineering academia is familiar with and comfortable with matlab.
Cons:
- Can not distribute as an executable- would need to be an add-on/toolbox.
- Would require (?) the matlab compiler (which is pricy).
- Requires Matlab, which is also pricy.
These pros and cons are what I've been able to come up with, though I have very little experience with interpreted languages in general. I'd love to hear any thoughts on both the interpreters I've proposed here, if these pros/cons listed are legitimate, and any other interpreters I haven't thought of (e.g.- would php be appropriate for something like this? lua?). First hand experience with embedding an interpreter in your code is definitely a plus!
I was a strong Tcl/Tk proponent from pre-release, until I did a largish project with it and found how unmaintainable it is. Unfortunately, since prototypes are so easy in Tcl, you wind up with "one-off" scripts taking on lives of their own.
Having adopted Python in the last few months, I'm finding it to be all that Tcl promised and a whole lot more. As many a Python veteran can tell you, source indentation is a bother for the first hour at most and then it seems not a hindrance but affirmatively helpful. Incidentally Tcl's author, John Ousterhout was alternately praised and panned for writing a language that forced the One True Brace Style on Tcl coders (I was 1TBS so it was fine by me).
The only Tcl constructs that aren't handled well by Python are arbitrary eval "${prefix}${command} arg" constructs that shouldn't be used in Tcl anyway but are and the uplevel type statements (which were a nice idea but made for some hairy code). Indeed, Python feels a little antagonistic to dynamic eval but I think that is a Good Thing. Unfortunately, I've yet to come along with a language that embraced its GUI as well as Tcl/Tk; Tkinter does the job in Python but it hurts.
I cannot speak to Matlab at all.
With a few months of Python under my belt, I'd almost certainly port any Tcl program that is in ongoing development to Python for purposes of sanity.
Have you considered using Octave? From what I gather, it is nearly a drop-in replacement for much of matlab. This might allow you to support matlab for those who have it, and a free alternative for those who don't. Since the "meat" of your program appears to be written in another language, the performance considerations seem to be not as important as providing an environment that has: plotting and visualization capabilities, is cross-platform, has a big user base, and in a language that nearly everyone in academia and/or involved with modelling fluid flow probably already knows. Matlab/Octave can potentially have all of those.
Well, unless there are any other suggestions, the final answer I have arrived at is to go with Python.
I seriously considered matlab/octave, but when reading the octave API and matlab API, they are different enough that I'd need to build separate interfaces for each (or get very creative with macros). With python I end up with a single, easier to maintain codebase for the front end, and it is used by just about everyone we know. Thanks for the tips/feedback everyone!
I am currently deciding on an alternative JVM language to port an existing Swing desktop application written in Java 6. Given that JavaFX specifically targets this kind of application, it would seem that my best option is JavaFX Script.
However, what about other kinds of applications and libraries? Would JavaFX Script be the best choice in general for a second JVM language?
Currently, it seems that Scala is the most talked about alternative to the Java language. This month (October 2009), it is at position 34 in the TIOBE index, while JavaFX Script is at position 44, and Clojure, Fan, and Groovy are at positions below 50.
So, what are your impressions? Which language would you invest your time in learning and using (and why), assuming you can freely choose the language for a given project to run in the JVM?
My main question would be: why are you porting an existing application? The answer to this question may give you some idea of where you want to go.
Some quick perspectives on the main choices:
Scala is in my view, a better Java than Java. If you want a language that takes the best bits of Java buts adds a lot of new innovations and features, then it may well be for you.
Clojure is an amazingly well designed language, particularly if you believe in a future of highly complex, concurrent applications. It's also extremely productive - I can probably create more value/hour in Clojure than any other language. However, unless you already know Lisp it will seem very unfamiliar at first. If you are willing to live on the cutting edge to get these benefits, Clojure may well be for you.
JavaFX script - has some very nice features for GUI design, and clearly has support of Sun/Oracle. On the other hand, I don't see it having massive traction outside this domain. I'd suggest giving it a trail run to see if it meets you needs.
Java - should still be on your list! If the reason you are porting is because the code has become difficult to maintain, then maybe a focused phase of re-factoring while staying on Java can get you the benefits you want. It's possible to write perfectly good GUI applications in Java.
Groovy - really nice scripting language on the JVM. Particularly good if you want to embed scripting features within an existing Java/JVM application. Not sure I'd choose it for (re)writing a complete application however.
JRuby / Jython - haven't seen these much myself but heard good things. Probably most suitable if you have Ruby / Python skills in the team but also want the benefits of the JVM platform.
The best alternate language, and the best language overall, IMO, is that which best allows you to write the program in the best model for you.
So, if you are writing a GUI app, then Scala may be the incorrect choice, as you wouldn't be moving away from Swing.
If JavaFX best meets your needs, then use that language.
If you know LISP then Clojure would be a good choice, but, like Scala, not for this problem, it sounds like.
If you don't know lisp and you want/need a functional programming language, then Scala would be the best choice.
Basically, there is no one language that is best in all situations, it helps to know what you want to do, and the strengths/weaknesses of the various options.
Those all sound like good choices. You could add JRuby to the list...
I have been learning C++ for a while now, I find it very powerful. But, the problem is the the level of abstraction is not much and I have to do memory management myself.
What are the languages that I can use which uses a higher level of abstraction.
Java, C#, Ruby, Python and JavaScript are probably the big choices before you.
Java and C# are not hugely different languages. This big difference you'll find from C++ is memory management (i.e. objects are automatically freed when they are no longer referenced). You would chose these if you were interested in desktop style applications, or keen on static typing (and you'd probably choose between them based on how you feel towards Microsoft and the Windows platform). In both cases you'll find much richer standard libraries than you'll be used to from C++.
Python and Ruby take a step away from static typing, into a world where you can call and method on any object (and fail at runtime if it's not there). That is both a blessing (a lot less boilerplate code) and a curse (the compiler can't catch those errors for you anymore). Once again, you'll find they have richer standard libraries, and are higer level again than Java / C#. Performance is the main downfall, with Python being somewhat faster than Ruby as I understand it. To choose between them, you'd probably choose Ruby if you're interesting in web development for the Ruby on Rails framework community, and otherwise go with Python.
JavaScript is even more different from C++ in that it does away with classes entirely. Objects are simply cloned from other objects and can have methods and properties added to them at runtime. Very flexible, but also very easy to make into a total mess. JavaScript is the only real choice if you're interested in running applications in a browser, which is really coming into its own as a platform. You'll find the standard libraries available rather limited if you're not doing a lot with the browser, but there are quite a few good frameworks which fill in some of the gaps.
Some other interesting, though more niche choices are
Smalltalk - More or less in the Ruby and Python camp, and significantly faster as I understand it. Be careful though _ I've seen lots of good engineers learn Smalltalk and never come back ;)
Objective-C - When C went object oriented, C++ went one way (static typing), and Objective-C went the other (dynamic typing). It's quite Smalltalk inspired, and has a good standard library if you're in Mac / iPhone land. In terms of memory management, unlike everything else I've listed, it's not garbage collected (though that's now an option on Mac OS X 10.5), but it does have a reference counting scheme which makes life significantly simpler than managing memory by hand.
Lisp - I've never learnt it myself beyond what I needed for minor Emacs hacking. As I understand it, the libraries were nice in their day, but though the language remains supremely elegant, they've fallen a little behind the times.
Haskel - If you wanted a complete break from objects and classes, Haskel and it's functional approach is an interesting way to go (or Lisp as above, or F# if you are in .Net land). Basically, you're giving up loops and variables in favour of doing everything recursively. Takes some time to wrap your mind around, and probably isn't practical for most real world applications, but it's a good one to learn.
Eiffel - I love it - Very clean syntax, and designed for serious engineering type systems. Statically types like C# and Java, and with a weaker standard library, but it will make you really think about language and class library design.
ActionScript and Flex - The programming interface to Flash, which is based on what seems to be a statically typed version of JavaScript. I've played with it a bit, and it's quite slick if you're interested in developing media based applications. You can also push beyond the browser with Flex and into the Air platform to build real desktop apps.
I would say that from your question you probably haven't finished learning about C++. If you're still doing your own memory managment then you still have a long way to go my friend!
Check out the auto_ptr and shared_ptr - check out the Boost libraries.
Similarly with abstraction - what are you specifically complaining about? AFAIK there's not much you can't do with C++ that is present in other strongly-typed languages.
I know this doesn't answer your question - you want to move forwards, but C++ is one of those things where you never really stop learning. If you get bored, take a brief foray into templates and template meta-programming...
I see a lot of excellent suggestions so far. However, I think there's something missing, assembler.
Why learn assembly language?
It's not as difficult as you may think. Assembly language is a lot smaller in scope than many modern languages, there are a few tricks you need to understand for it to make sense, but it's not that complicated.
It broadens your knowledge base. Knowing the fundamentals is almost always beneficial, even when working at a high level.
It can be extremely useful when debugging. Especially debugging native code without the source, the knowledge you gain from learning assembler enhances your ability to debug in these situations by leaps and bounds.
It gives you more options. When the rare circumstance comes up where assembly code is needed you won't be helpless.
It's good for your resume. It shows that you learn beyond just the bare minimum needed to keep your current job, it shows a curiosity about fundamentals, and it puts you in a different class of programmers, and that class tends to be more experienced and more capable.
It's just plain cool.
Some assembly language resources:
Sandpile.org (assembly language / processor architecture reference)
Gavin's Guide to 80x86 Assembly (a decent online tutorial)
Assembly Language for Intel-Based Computers (5e) (a decent textbook for x86 assembly)
Trying something really foreign like Haskell will allow you to think in different ways. It also helps you to think recursively. C++ has recursion but it infiltrates many more parts of functional languages.
ditto Lisp,.. or scheme
Even if you don't ever use it, it's handy. I only really got template programming after learning it.
Another one is prolog. it puts you in a non sequential mindset.
If you're comfortable with C++ syntax and style, you might find D to be an interesting language. Or if you want to branch out, any of Python, C#, Java, Ruby would be excellent choices.
C# if you're in the Microsoft ecosystem.
Python and Ruby seem to have the most traction in the Linux/Unix/etc space.
ObjectiveC is dominant on the Macintosh and iPhone. The most recent MacOS implements garbage collection for a subset of the frameworks, but to use the rest you'd have to do resource management yourself.
You could learn Java, as it does garbage collection as well, but the number of frameworks you'd need to become familiar with to be a productive Java developer is daunting.
Well if you're looking for a very high level of abstraction and memory management then I'd say lisp would be an ideal candidate. I'm learning it now, slowly, and it's the most fun I've had with a new language.
Having said that Python or Ruby may be a better compromise between expressiveness and popularity. Python's Django framework is one of the better RAD frameworks if you're looking for web application stuff.
I'd say it depends on the kind of programming you want to try. If you want to stay on the OOP side, learn Python or Ruby, both languages provide an easy way to create bindings to use your C++ code from a script (for efficiency reasons).
If you need another approach to programming, learn a "functional" language like Lisp or Haskell.
And if you need to include a fast and small scripting language inside your C++ application, try Lua.
Last but not least, if you know Java and hate it, you can try Scala, a language where you can mix your Java classes with your Scala code, very interesting.
Scheme.
The Little Schemer and Structure and Interpretation of Computer Program will stretch your mind in strange and wonderful ways.
DrScheme is a good IDE for beginners. The Scheme Programming Language makes a good, free reference.
try c# much :)
if you want to abstract memory management, Java comes to my mind instantly.
I suggest learning database design and a query language such as SQL.
You can start with a desktop tool like Microsoft Access or use the free SQL Server Express or Postgre or MySQL.
Well I think there is no predefined route in learning programming languages. You may learn your next lang based on your job needs, academic research, just for fun, etc. There are many options.
In you feel comfortable in C++, you can go down and learn some assembly. It's a dark art but you'll be glad when you encounter some hard debugging session.
In terms of more abstraction, Smalltalk is extremely fun, OOP-pure and 100% dynamic (debugging is a pleasant thing to do, which is not in static-typed languages). Dolphin Smalltalk is a good implementation for Windows, even the free community edition gives enough to play with. In multiplatform Smalltalk VMs, go for Visualworks or Squeak. Visualworks is extremely stable and comes with a lot of documentation.
Python is used today in many, many fields. I don't know anything about Python excepting the basic syntax and semantics, but it's required today for many jobs.
Java it's, well Java. It's interesting that Java never catch on me. You may get interested on Java, altough. Ask here for advantages of using it over C++ or other OOP languages.
For Web development go for Javascript, specially considering the AJAX wave. It's getting interesting those days. We've talked about Smalltalk, all right, Seaside is an amazing framework for web development. It works (at least I tried on) Squeak /Visualworks... it's beatiful.
Well, there are a lot of more to get your hands on: Scheme, LISP, Ruby, Lua, Bash (!), Perl (ugh), Haskell... Try them all and have fun!
Qt
Why not learn Qt? Its a great application development framework available on all platforms and even mobile devices!
Clojure is well worth exploring as it meets both of your criteria:
It has a strong emphasis on programming with higher level abstractions. see e.g. this video: Clojure: The Art of Abstraction
It has automatic memory management / garbage collection (via the JVM, which has some of the world's best GC implementations)
I'll give some examples using just one abstraction: in Clojure you can manipulate pretty much any data structure via the sequence abstraction.
;; treat a vector as a sequence and reverse it
(reverse [1 2 3 4 5])
=> (5 4 3 2 1)
;; Take 10 items from a infinite sequence
(take 10 (range))
=> (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
;; Treat a String as a sequence of characters, calculate the frequencies
(frequencies "abracadabra")
=> {\a 5, \b 2, \r 2, \c 1, \d 1}
;; Define an infinite lazy sequence of fibonacci numbers, take the first 10
(def fibs (concat [0 1] (lazy-seq (map + fibs (rest fibs)))))
(take 10 fibs)
=> (0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34)
Since you are already into C++, next step would be to learn .Net through managed C++ or managed extensions for C++..this will get you a step in the big world of .Net framework..Once you understand the framework, makes it more comfortable to learn other .Net languages like C#, VB.Net etc.
One of the areas that MC++ excels in, and is in fact unique in amongst the .NET languages, is the ability to take an existing unmanaged (C++) application, recompile it with the /clr switch, have it generate MSIL and then run under the CLR. This extraordinary feat is aptly termed "It Just Works (IJW)!" There are some limitations, but for the most part, the application will just run. The C++ code can consist of old-fashioned printf statements, MFC, ATL, or even templates!
I recommend python as it's not only a sexy language, but also very widely used and easy to integrate with C++ through Boost.Python.
But as Thomi said, there's lot to explore in C++ and with the help of Boost libraries it's becoming really easy to develop in.
Rather than suggest a specific language, I would recommend you pick any language or languages that offer the following 4 features:
Automatic Memory Management
Reflection/Introspection
Declarative/Functional constructs(e.g. lambda functions)
Duck Typing
The idea here is to expand your programming perspective to include concepts that the C++ language does not offer you out of the box.
It depends on what you want to do. If you have some specific tasks that you are interested in accomplishing then look at languages that are best for those types of tasks. The best way to learn a language is to actually use it.
I'd say get started with Python. It has a higher level of abstraction and it teaches you the importance of indenting and making "pretty" code. Not that "pretty" is very important, but it will make the future maintainer of your code a lot happier :)
There's a lot of example code out there, and if you are into Linux there are various distributions out there who have all (or most) of their tools based on the language. If you like digging into how managing an operating systems works (something most programmers do) it's a good start. Before I get the flames I said managing, not the actual kernel stuff for that you mostly need C and you should have that covered.
On the other hand it might be nice to dive into the C side of things, ignore the OO stuff and learn functional programming. If you head down that road I also suggest to start with basic assembly language like one of the upper posts suggested. Maybe HLA (High-Level Assembly by Randall Hyde, he wrote a great book called Art of Assembly Language Programming) is a good start. You'll either learn to love memory management or hate it for the rest of your live. Good to know in case you want to start a career in programming :)
However if you're looking to make a job out of programming, Java and J2EE is an easy money maker if you know what you're doing. IMHO it gets boring really quick though.
Personally, I have been programming in Java, Python, C/++ and my favorite has to be python. Although C++ can do everything Python can do and more, I wrote a Python program with about 10 lines that would take about 50 in C++. So, moral of the story, use python.
If you haven't already, try out a scripting language. It should change the way you work & think. Hopefully, in a good way :)
I've got to put up a separate answer for Perl. While Python is roughly equivalent in functionality and considered more clean and modern, Perl has an elegance all of its own - the elegance of pure pragmatism. It also boasts a truly great library support. Take a look at Perl to expand your brain in the direction opposite to Haskel :) (although Perl aficionados claim that it can be used for functional programming).
Rust
Syntactically similar to C++
Designed for performance and safety, especially safe concurrency