I am not sure if the title of this question gets to the point. I have written a large software system in C C++ for Windows, and want to give the users of this system the option to add compiled code to it. The user should be able to do basic stuff, and exchange data with my program.
Currently the implemented way is via DLLs. But for this, a grown up compiler is needed, and it is not as easy as I wished. Is there a tiny C compiler that can create Windows DLLs?
Another idea is the Java native interface. But this requires a complete Java system to run in the background, and it is not easy to run code in it.
Do you have any other ideas?
Any interpreted language? (TCL and Lua were designed as extension languages, but you can nearly as easily interface with any other).
How about python integration?
You could create an python interface that interfaces with your application. Python is rather easy to learn and should integrate easily with c/c++. The python documentation has an own chapter on that.
You could also use a tool like swig to generate the interface.
The advantage of this is that they wouldn't have to compile anything. They could just supply python files that could be loaded into your application and run within the software. This is a well known use for python, and something its simple syntax promotes.
As the other says you will be best of by providing an embedded language.
I would chip in for javascript and use the google v8 engine
By using javascript you get a language nearly everbody can use and program in.
There is other javascript engines you can embed like SpiderMonkey.
See this answer for what to choose.
An interpreted language is not good enough. I need speed. The software itself is an interpreted language. So I added support for the tiny C compiler. It is only C, and I do check mingw, which probably would not be as tiny as this. Thanks for all your hints.
Added after several months:
I have now two tools, actually: TinyC and Python. The speed difference between those is noticable (factor 5-10), but that usually does not matter too much. Python is much easier for the user, though I managed to integrate both into the Euler GUI quite nicely.
One of the ways is to add scripting. You application can host scripting environment and expose its services there. Users would be able to execute JScript/VBScript scripts and interact with your application. The advantage is that with reasonable effort you can get the power of well known and well documented scripting languages into your application (I suppose there is even debugger for scripting there). You will be required to shape your app services as COM interfaces and scripts will be able to access them automatically using method names you assigned on C++ side.
C++, Win32 and Scripting: Quick way to add Scripting support to your applications
MSDN Entry Point - IActiveScript interface
Related
I know that many large-scale applications such as video games are created using multiple langages. For example, it's likely the game/physics engines are written in C++ while gameplay tasks, GUI are written in something like Python or Lua.
I understand why this division of roles is done; use lower-level languages for tasks that require extreme optimization, tweaking, efficiency and speed, while using higher-level languages to speed up production time, reduce nasty bugs ect.
Recently, I've decided to undertake a larger personal project and would like to divy-up parts of the project similar to above. At this point in time, I'm really confused about how this interoperability between languages (especially compiled vs interpreted) works.
I'm quite familiar with the details of going from ANSCII code test to loading an executable, when written in something like C/C++. I'm very curious at how something like a video game, built from many different languages, works. This is a large/broad question, but specifically I'm interested in:
How does the code-level logic work? I.e. how can I call Python code from a C++ program? Especially since they don't support the same built-in types?
What does the program image look like? From what I can tell, a video game is running in a single process, so what does the runtime image look like when running a C/C++ program that calls a Python function?
If calling code from an interpreted language from a compiled program, what are the sequence of events that occur? I.e If I'm inside my compiled executable, and for some reason have a call to an interpreted language inside a loop, do I have to wait for the interpreter every iteration?
I'm actually finding a hard time finding information on what happening at the machine-level, so any help would be appreciated. Although I'm curious in general about interoperation of software, I'm specifically interested in C++ and Python interaction.
Thank you very much for any insight, even if it's just pointing me to where I can find more information.
In the specific case of python, you have basically three options (and this generally applies across the board):
Host python in C++: From the perspective of the C++ programme, the python interpreter is a C library. On the python side, you may or may not need to use something like ctypes to expose the C(++) api.
Python uses C++ code as DLLs/SOs - C++ code likely knows nothing of python, python definitely has to use a foreign function interface.
Interprocess communication - basically, two separate processes run, and they talk over a socket. These days you'd likely use some kind of web services architecture to accomplish this.
Depending on what you want to do:
Have a look at SWIG: http://www.swig.org/ It's a tool that aims to connect C/C++ code with Python, Tcl, Perl, Ruby, etc. The common use case is a Python interface (graphical or not) that will call the C/C++ code. SWIG will parse the C/C++ code in order to generate the interfaces.
Libpython: it's a lib that allows you to embed Python code. You have some examples here: http://docs.python.org/3.0/extending/embedding.html
I've just started to read about Ruby, and I was wondering if it can be embedded in a C++ application like Lua which provides a library to parse a given script file: https://stackoverflow.com/a/5127294/399107
Yes, you can. You just need to embed a Ruby engine in your application.
Note that, unlike the main Lua engine, some Ruby engines aren't really that well suited to being embedded into other programs. But, for example, Rubinius, IronRuby and JRuby have been specifically designed with embedding in mind, and even though it isn't pretty, you can embed YARV or MRI as well, even though they are not designed for it.
There's also MRuby, but unlike the others, it doesn't implement the full Ruby Language Specification, it only implements a subset of the ISO Ruby Specification which itself is only a small subset of the intersection of Ruby 1.8 and Ruby 1.9. Plus, it hasn't been released yet, as is evidenced by the fact that not even its homepage exists yet. It is, however, specifically designed for embedding, in both senses of the word: being embedded into other programs, and being useful on an embedded device with very little RAM.
As you may have noticed, it is much easier to embed Ruby into your app if the app is running on the Java platform or the CLI. There are C++ compilers for both the Java platform and the CLI, so that option is not entirely out of the question. Otherwise, I'd say that Rubinius is easier to embed, but more people have tried embedding YARV, so there are more blog posts about how to do that. (Or maybe, embedding Rubinius is so trivial nobody needs to write blog posts about it.)
A long time ago, someone was working on an implementation of Ruby for the Lua VM, but that implementation never went anywhere. Would solve all your problems, though :-)
Sure you can. It's possible with with SWIG, or you can make your own bindings for it (or google to see if someone has already done the work). The big question is do you really want to? The ruby interpreter is pretty heavy, and the interface isn't very nice.
Matz is working on an embeddable version of Ruby called mruby, which strives to be as easy to embed and as light as Lua. But its still alpha quality.
Yes, it's possible. Most of the standard libraries types are written in C. And when you can use C, you can use C++ too. Use extern "C" declared functions to get the right binding. I had a lot of trouble, when using a C++ compiler that was different (different version) from the compiler that was used to compile the ruby interpreter.
Here is the part of the pick axt book, that covers the ruby extension library: http://media.pragprog.com/titles/ruby3/ext_ruby.pdf
In an open source C++ web server project, I wrote a ruby / rack adapter, to use the server with rails: https://github.com/TorstenRobitzki/Sioux/tree/master/source/rack
My question is a little bit stupid but I decided to ask advanced programmers like some of you. So I want to make a "dynamic" C++ program. My idea is to compile it and after compilation (maybe with scripting language like python) to change some how the code of the program. I know you will tell me that after the compilation I can not change the code but is there a way of doing that. Thank you!
You could design a modular architecture using plugins in external libraries. For example you could use the Command Pattern. That way you can dynamically load code that was generated after you main program. You would have to fix an interface though. Functions like GetProcAddress in the Windows api might be a good point to start.
For dynamic coding and rapid prototyping I recommend to have a look at Lua. The engine is very small and easy to integrate in your c++ program.
The only way to do that in C++ is to unload the DLL with the code to be
modified, modify the sources, invoke the compiler to regenerate the DLL,
and reload the DLL. It's very, very heavy weight, and it only works if
the compiler is present on the machines where the code is to be run.
(Usually the case under Unix, rarely the case with Windows.)
Interpreted languages like Python are considerably more dynamic; Python
has a built-in function to execute a string as Python code, for example.
If you need dynamically modifiable code, I'd suggest embedding Python in
your application, and using it for the dynamic parts.
Personally I have never played with re-compiling C++ during runtime, and I do not intend too. However I have been doing a lot of embedding of scripting languages lately.
Someone else mentioned the obvious first choice for embedding: Lua. Lua is a pretty popular language to embed and you will find a bunch of documentation about how to do it. Integrating it into the C++ will allow you to define behavior at runtime like you want.
What I am using is a wonderful langauge called Squirrel. It is a lot like Lua but with native object(class) support and C++-like syntax. I have managed to embed it into a C++ application, and through using the sqrat binding library both languages can share information easily.
I have squirrel building and initializing my UI. As a result, 0 compiling is required in order to craft and structure my UI for my game. I intend to take this a step further and use this gameplay-side in order to create similar behavior you are looking for(changing behavior at runtime through dynamic code usage)
I recommend Checking out squirrel here: http://www.squirrel-lang.org/
I plan on writing tutorials on how to embed squirrel and install the binding library, but I have not started on them yet. If I can remember, I will edit this post in the future (could be a few months) once I have completed them. In the meantime give it a shot yourself. You may find it to your liking.
I have read a few articles in the cross-platform tag. However, as I'm starting a fresh application (mostly a terminal/console app), I'm wondering about the easiest way to make it cross-platform (i.e. working for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows). I have thought about the following:
adding various macro/tags in my code to build different binary executables for each operating system
use Qt platform to develop a cross-functional app (although the GUI and platform component would add more development time as I'm not familiar with Qt)
Your thoughts? Thanks in advance for your contribution!
Edit: Sounds like there are a lot of popular responses on Java and Qt. What are the tradeoffs between these two while we're at it?
Do not go the first way. You'll encounter a lot of problems that are already solved for you by numerous tools.
Qt is an excellent choice if you definitely want C++. In fact, it will speed up development even if you aren't familiar with it, as it has excellent documentation and is easy to use. The good part about it is that it isn't just a GUI framework, but also networking, XML, I/O and lots of other stuff you'll probably need.
If not necessary C++, I'd go with Java. C++ is far too low level language for most applications. Debugging memory management and corrupt stacks can be a nightmare.
To your edited question:
The obvious one: Java has garbage collection, C++ doesn't. It means no memory leaks in Java (unless you count possible bugs in JVM), no need to worry about dangling pointers and such.
Another obvious one: it is extremely easy to use platform-dependent code in C++ using #ifdefs. In Java it is a real pain. There is JNI but it isn't easy to use at all.
Java has very extensive support of exceptions. While C++ has exceptions too, Qt doesn't use them, and some things that generate exceptions in Java will leave you with corrupt memory and crashes in C++ (think buffer overflows).
"Write once, run everywhere." Recompiling C++ program for many platforms can be daunting. Java programs don't need to be recompiled.
It is open to debate, but I think Java has more extensive and well-defined library. The abstraction level is generally higher, the interfaces are cleaner. And it supports more useful things, like XML schemas and such. I can't think of a feature that is present in Qt, but absent in Java. Maybe multimedia or something, I'm not sure.
Both languages are very fast nowadays, so performance is usually not an issue, but Java can be a real memory hog. Not extremely important on modern hardware too, but still.
The least obvious one: C++ can be more portable than Java. One example is FreeBSD OS which had very poor support for Java some time ago (don't know if it is still the case). C++/Qt works perfectly there. If you plan on supporting a wide range of Unix systems, C++ may be a better choice.
Use Java. As much bashing as it gets/used to get, it's the best thing to get stuff working across any platform. Sure, you will still need to handle external OS related functions you may be using, but it's much better than using anything else.
Apart from Java, there are a few things you can run on the JVM - JRuby, Jython, Scala come to mind.
You could also write with the scripting languages directly( Ruby, Python, etc ).
C/C++ is best left for applications that demand complete memory control and high controllability.
I'd go with the QT (or some other framework) option. If you went with the first you'd find it considerably harder. After all, you have to know what to put into the various conditionally compiled sections for all the platforms you're targeting.
I would suggest using a technology designed for cross-platform application development. Here are two technologies I know of that -- as long as you read the documentation and use the features properly -- you can build the application to run on all 3 platforms:
Java
XULRunner (Mozilla's Development Platform)
Of course, there is always the web. I mostly use web applications not just for their portability, but also because they run on my Windows PC, my Ubuntu computer, and my Mac.
We mainly build web applications because the web is the future. Local applications are viewed in my organization as mostly outdated, unless there is of course some feature or technology the web doesn't yet support that holds that application back from being fully web-based.
I would also suggest Github's electron which allows to build cross platform desktop applications using NodeJs and the Google's Chromium. The only drawback for this method is that an electron application run much slower than a native C++ application due to the abstraction layers between Javascript and native C++.
If you're making a console app, you should be able to use the same source for all three platforms if you stick to the functions defined in the POSIX libraries. Setting up your build environment is the most complicated part, especially if you want to be able to build for multiple platforms out of the same source tree.
I'd say if you really want to use C++, QT is the easiest way for cross-platform application, I found myself using QT when I need an UI even though QT has a large set of library which makes pretty much everything easier in C++.
If you don't want to use QT then you need a good design and a lot of abstraction to make cross-platfform application.
However I'm using more and more Python bindinq to QT for medium size application.
If you are working on a console application and you know a bit of python, you might find Python scripting much more comfortable than C++. It keeps the time comsuming stuff away to be able to focus on your application.
Performance considerations aside, is there any known way to take existing C, C++, or Objective C code and run it directly in the browser? For example, a compiler that converts all the code into some interpreted language that can be run in the browser. Like Javascript, or Actionscript and the Flash player, or I suppose Java and the JVM.
I recognize there are higher level languages like Haxe that can be compiled to different targets. And on the other side there are projects like Cappuccino and GWT that attempt to make Javascript development more like traditional desktop development.
But I was wondering if you had an application that worked on a desktop or an existing code base done in C, C++, or Objective C could it easily be converted to a web based application?
Is there work being done on this front? Is there any practical reason to do this? Basically turn the browser into the OS?
Beside the performance issues, and the entrenchment of OS vendors, are there any technical reasons this couldn't be accomplished? Could this kind of C like code be shoehorned into a virtual machine hosted in a browser?
Google's Native Client (NaCl) uses a tweaked compiler to create x86 object code that can be verified by the browser and run in a sandbox, without a major performance hit - pretty cool stuff. They've compiled Quake under it.
This Matasano article has a good run-down on how it works.
Here is a C compiler which targets a number of other languages, including Javascript:
http://cowlark.com/clue/
Not sure what state it's in - last I spoke to the author, it handled pure C89 (subject to the limitations of the compiler frontend). AFAIK there are no plans for it ever to support a GUI.
I was wondering if you had an application that worked on a desktop or an existing code base done in C, C++, or Objective C could it easily be converted to a web based application?
That's sort of what Silverlight is for (C# rather than Objective-C, of course), since it makes the .NET runtime available. Porting a desktop app is usually as much about the GUI as it is about the language - if you have a Cocoa app and you want to port it to another environment (whether that's a browser or Windows), then you'd need more than just an Objective-C cross-compiler, you need the Application Kit and so on. WINE being a notable counter-example, it's pretty rare for these OS-specific libraries to be available at all on other platforms, let alone efficiently. And even where they are available, there are look-and-feel and usability problems when the conventions of one UI are bolted on top of another. So people tend to either use portable frameworks to start with, or else completely rewrite the presentation layer of the app.
Basically turn the browser into the OS?
There are several projects underway to turn the browser into a fully-featured environment for applications (not sure whether or not this is what you mean by "OS"). Flash and AIR, Silverlight, HTML 5. None of them plan to provide C as a programming language, as far as I'm aware.
Emscripten allows you to compile your code into javascript, which is then platform and browser independent.
I think the closest thing you are looking for is Google Native Client. It is still in early development stages though.
You may be interested in LLVM, the Low Level Virtual Machine. It would be possible to implement an LLVM inside a Java applet, Flash applet, or even in Javascript (I wouldn't be surprised if somebody hasn't already done some or all of the above).
Converting an existing application is a completely different kettle of fish, however. The paradigms of user interaction are so completely different between a "desktop" app and a "browser" app that a lot of it will have to be redesigned before a port is reasonable.
Check out Adobe Alchemy (formerly known as FlaCC), which uses LLVM to compile C/C++ to Flash.
This is possible with an ActiveX control, but this works only in microsoft internet explorer.
http://code.google.com/p/cibyl/wiki/Cibyl can make Java sources, so you could compile that for the Java plugin in a browser. Given that Java plugins are much less common nowadays though, you may be better off with a solution that compiles to Javascript.
It seems to me that the major challenges are not related to the language being used. I suspect C would be a very difficult language to implement in JavaScript, but it is possible.
It just seems like a bad idea to me.
First off, I would not write a desktop application in C, much less a web application. Second, web applications require a completely different architecture than desktop applications. Simply cross compiling a desktop application will not make it a web application. If it is portability you are looking for, I suggest using a high-level language targeting the JVM.
Maybe you should consider http://ideone.com for compiling c++ in the browser? You can also compile or interpret other languages, I personally use it rather for more exotic languages - I have c and c++ on my PC :)