I've been programming PHP & mySQL for about 8 years now. I understand and make use of modern software architectures and OOP in my projects on a daily basis. I decided I want to learn something new.
I finally decided yesterday that I want to learn C and eventually Objective-C so I can begin creating Mac / iOS applications. (Would you recommend C, C# or C++? I just assumed C would be best.)
That said, I miss the days of programming BASIC tic-tac-toe games on my graphing calculator haha. I'd like to get a very good foundation in C, maybe create some command line games, and then eventually move up to GUI programming with Objective-C
Where would you recommend that I start looking online. I don't just want to understand how to make code work in C, but I also want to understand how and why code work.
Thanks & wish me luck :-)
It's not online, but to learn C, I recommend you read Kernighan and Ritchie's The C Programming Language, 2nd ed. (also known as "K&R"). It is a slim volume that communicates the fundamentals of C89. You can probably find it for free at your local library; that's what I did, anyway. C99 changed a few things, but the core of the language remained the same.
I don't recall whether it gets into the details of how an executable is loaded and linked and how the stack and heap are generally used. For that, check out the latest edition of Patterson and Hennessy's Computer Organization and Design: The Hardware/Software Interface.
If you already understand OOP, and you are conversant with C, then picking up Objective-C is as easy as reading through Apple's The Objective-C Programming Language and looking at a few examples.
Objective-C is simple, but the Mac/iOS frameworks are mammoth. Most of your time learning to program for Mac/iOS using Objective-C will be spent learning the frameworks and how to cooperate with the execution environment (NSApplication/UIApplication, NSRunLoop, the responder chain and event handling, etc.). You can get by with Apple's documentation, but Hillegass's Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X (currently in its third edition) is the standard non-Apple introduction to Mac OS X desktop programming. A clear standard introduction for iOS programming has yet to emerge, but I recommend Conway and Hillegass's iPhone Programming. After reading Hillegass's other book, you'll be comfortable and familiar with the didactic style employed in iPhone Programming.
If you want to do Mac/iOS apps, just learn objective-C. I don't think you will "move up" from C to obj-c, rather you will just learn two different programming languages. Working in C is very different from working in C++ or obj-c. Mastering C will help you become... a master in C, not in obj-C.
I feel it's like saying that you should first learn how to ride a motorcycle in order to learn how to drive a car. Just because they both have wheels, doesn't mean it works like that.
On the other hand, if you feel C would be useful to you for some other reason (which it might very well be), there are many great books on C out there. I recommend the C Programming Language by Kernighan & Ritchie (often referenced just by K&R).
Don't learn C to seed your learning for Objective-C, that step is unnecessary.
I come from a C# background, and when I first started learning Objective-C I had little C experience, which didn't inhibit me when working in Objective-C. The big thing you've got going for your is the OOP and software architecture. That will get you further than learning C.
I found that the best resources for learning Objective-C and specifically iOS programming can be found within Apple's documentation:
Start reading through the iOS Reference Library specifically:
Human Interface Guidelines
Memory Management (this is as close to C as you need to get)
Apple's source code examples are great. specifically:
iPhoneCoreDataRecipes
Another great resource is Cocoa with Love which is written really well and has some great content, specifically:
Assign, retain, copy: pitfalls in Obj-C property accessors
Method names in Objective-C
Debugging tips for Objective-C programming
As well, I've found a lot of people like the AppsAmuck demos. Personally I found that they're coded quite poorly, but there are some good area specific examples for working with animations, urls, etc.
I would recommend learning Objective-C because it's so different C. You should know most of the C-syntax developing PHP.
I don't really think you need to get too deep inside C, just because you usually don't need to use C code while developing in Objective-C (or at least not the features that you would learn). Start directly with Objective-C and try to fill up holes just when needed.
Although Objective-C is considered an extension of C language (in term of its grammar), it replaces almost everything you needed to do in C with Objective-C and its types, so there's no really need to use it so ofter. Usually you need it when interfacing with something low level but not so frequently (since Obj-c wrappers are present for almost everything).
Scott Stevenson's Cocoa Dev Central hosts a lot of useful Cocoa tutorials, including a C tutorial for Cocoa programmers and links to several other useful resources on the topic.
Another good one is Masters of the Void by Uli Kusterer, a longtime Mac programmer.
If you really want to learn C before Objective-C, go for it. For many people it's an unnecessary step, but you will use it eventually. If you decide that you want to skip learning C and dive into Objective-C, Kochan's book is a gentle "from the ground up" introduction.
For C, it's going to be better to get a book than try to find online tutorials. The classic text (like everyone here is saying) is the K&R C book. It's well known as the standard. The problem is that it's very dry and not that great for self-learning. It's more of a classroom book.
The best C book for self-learning is K.N. King's C Programming: A Modern Approach. It's pricey, but is very well paced, in-depth, has comprehension questions at the end of each chapter. I found out about this book from the guy who wrote the classic Objective-C book, Aaron Hillegass. He understands teaching and recommended it because it's a great book to learn from. It will help you to think about C and programming, where K&R will just inform you.
Personally, I gave up on my goal of learning C for iPhone programming and just learned Objective-C from Hillegass's book (and Jeff LaMarche's book). I get confused on the odd occasions that I have to write or understand C code, but it hasn't been a huge hurdle.
Related
Note: I am new to programming and extremely new to c++.I have seen scouring google for a long time and only things i can come up with are external headers and very complicated code..
I want to do this at school, and there we are provided with Turbo C++. We can't bring any external headers in there, gotta work with whatever i've got.
I want to create a GUI. I want to create something really good for our annual project and i want to create a GUI.
I would like to make as detailed a GUI as possible, but would be satisfied if i can create as much as several text options and clicking on em triggers respective functions (I am sorry if thats not how GUIs work, i never worked with one).
Again help is highly appreciated, i understand most discussions on Stack Overflow are much more complicated than this, i appreciate you taking the time to read and (hopefully) answer a layman question.
I'll suggest a non-technical solution because this is actually largely not a technical problem. Much of your problem is that you have to use Turbo C++. Unfortunately, a number of poorer countries have, for some reason, stuck with extremely outdates software in education. I know because I'm originally from one of the "Turbo countries", and I know that the main technical university there still uses Turbo for undergrad courses.
This is bad. Large projects in school are there to teach you to work on software. A regular programming course should teach you to think like a programmer, and it doesn't matter what language you use. But term projects are supposed to be more practical. The problem is, with Turbo C++, not only will you fail to learn enough, you will learn things that are bad. You'd be writing a 16-bit program that takes effort to even run on modern hardware, while not being able to use the C++ language properly. The compiler is older than the first ISO C++ standard!
If you want to make an impressive project that will stand out in your studies, especially if you later want to continue at a foreign university, I urge you to talk to your professor, explain the situation, and ask if you can use something else for the project. A modern compiler with some framework like Qt. If you can reach an agreement to use something else, it will benefit you.
Otherwise, if you have no choice, get Turbo Vision. There are versions of BC++ packaged with it, or you can find it elsewhere, Turbo Vision is a fairly comprehensive interface framework for the dinosaur era.
First off, the toolchain and operating system you are using is outdated and incapable. And the language support Turbo C++ offers can hardly be called C++ at all; the code you will write will not be C++ code. At best, it will be C with classes code.
All that aside, there was a fairly-capable Text-based User Interface (TUI) library available with Turbo C++ (as well as Borland's Pascal-based toolchains,) called Turbo Vision. You might be able to use that. It generates UIs quite similar to the Turbo C++ IDE itself.
But IIRC, it was not trivial to use, so I advise you to find a book or reference or comprehensive tutorial of some kind. However, since your environment precludes anything that is not available already with TC, I see no option for you other than using Turbo Vision or writing your own, which doesn't sound like something you can do or want to do.
I recently started C++. I am using PHP right now and decided to take a look at C++. Web programming had me working with a couple of languages, with a couple of people. I wanted to do programming where I only had to bother with one language and create small utility apps (mostly not web-based). I wanted a compiled, strongly-type language without memorizing a tome of classes. Basically I wanted to learn C++ for the following:
mobile programming (I don't ever want to go touching Java, and I don't have a Mac for Objective C or IPhone SDK)
small desktop apps like DTRs, POSs
creating small desktop-based games
creating small Air-like applications that can access the web for additional content
I heard that C++ is not beginner-friendly and is mostly used for huge projects with lots of calculations and fine details (like 3D games). Is it practical or even possible for me to use C++ for the above cases? (Sorry, I haven't delved on C++ that much yet, so aside from "huge, monolithic project", I don't know any other uses for it)
You can certainly use C++ in all the areas you mention, though whether it is best of breed for any of them is open to debate. C++ is very large and complex language, and requires a fair bit of effort to get up to speed on. If I were you, I would pick one of the areas you mention that you are most interested in, and then find out which language(s) are best suited for that area and learn that.
If you are set on learning C++ you will need to read at least one book on it - you cannot learn it from internet resources alone. See this question The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List for a book list.
On the droid you can use other languages aside from Java - check out their ASE (Active Scripting Environment). C++ / C should really only be used when you have no other choice - i.e. speed critical code, operating systems etc. It's very easy to make a mistake that's difficult to diagnose and there are lots of task where it'll take way longer than it should to write and odds are others have already done so and done it way better - reinventing the wheel is bad. If it interests you though by all means learn and eventually you may master it. It's an excellent skill to have.
It's also not a completely object oriented language however, it's a hybrid one that supports most object oriented features, but some such as inheritance and polymorphism are a bit awkward to deal with in C++ - for example you have to define methods as virtual in base classes in order to be allowed to redefine them in subclasses - sort of like predicting the future - will this method every be desired to be redefined by an inheritor? Really what happens in that case is you make the base class method virtual later on to enable it to be redefinable - that is if you happen to have access to the source code to do just that - if not then oh well. For an example of this confusing stuff in C++ and other gotchas: Pitfalls
Look at other languages such as Ruby or Python - in particular Stackless Python where a combination of it and C++ (used where necessary) was used to create EVE Online as well as the functional languages such Erlang and Haskell.
For 2, 3 and 4, I recommend C# over C++, for the reasons I wrote here.
About 1, you can do iPhone development with .NET but I've never tried it and I don't know how viable it is.
Edit
To answer your actual question: yes, it's totally practical to write small and large desktop apps in C++. Especially if you use quality tools like Visual Studio and Qt. It's just that I think it'd waste a lot of your time for no reason, unless you intend to go into professional game development eventually.
I went to C++ from PHP like you, but I was more interested in 3D games and such. Now I have moved on to C# and find it much more enjoyable than C++.
As for your specific areas of interest however, C++ is certainly an option but C# may be better.
Mobile programming with C++ is probably not a good idea. I know it's possible with NDKs and such but for a beginner it's probably not so good. For iPhone development, other than the official SDK, the next best option is the (commercial) MonoTouch framework from Novell. However, you may still need a mac to deploy (I don't know). In terms of Android, if you don't want to touch Java (don't blame you) I believe a C# framework (similar to MonoTouch) is in development and other languages may be available. Other platforms? No idea.
Small desktop apps is also very possible with C++. Assuming you're running Windows, you can use the Win32 API (pain) or the C++/CLI API (better). You could also use a different GUI framework like Qt, wxWidgets or GTK+ which are all also supported on other platforms. Again coming back to C#, GUI development using GTK# in MonoDevelop is so much fun. Having used WinForms in Visual C# Express back in my Windows days, I can say that I now enjoy the process whereas I didn't before.
Games are my main area of interest and the reason I originally picked up C++. Seeing as you've said small and desktop-based, using C++ for performance reasons is way overkill IMO. You could make a decent, fun, playable game in Python using pygame without the pain of using a language like C++. In C# (yes, I'm trying to sell it to you) you could create awesome games using the XNA framework from Microsoft or other frameworks like (my personal favorite) OpenTK.
Rich internet applications. C++ is probably not the right tool to use here. It's certainly possible but seeing as C++ has no standard networking library, you would have to figure some of this stuff out yourself. C# may not be the right tool either but it makes it a little easier. There are other options as well (like Python) but it's not something I know much about.
Despite what I've said about it, I still think C++ is a good language to learn. It teaches you about lower-level things you never think about in PHP land. If you want to learn it, the book that really helped me was "C++: A beginners guide" by Herbert Schildt and also "Programming" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
Yes, your use cases can all be done with C++, more or less (YMMV on mobile devices).
To some degree or another, a language like C# will be more rapid to develop in, however.
In my opinion, once you get away from the straight-up form design features and hack for a while in a language & application, language feature comparisons begin to diminish in meaningfulness.
I recommend C++ as a first "heavyweight" language; see here for my most recent discussion on it.
I want to learn C++ so that i can develop C++ Python modules for server-related stuff.
I'm a purely dynamic languages developer (Python, PHP, Ruby, etc). I want to learn a fast language, and if I'm going to do this, I'd rather learn a really fast language like C++. Before I even get started though, I understand that suddenly working with static types, a different syntax, and compiling code will be quite the paradigm shift. Is there any advice that a C++ dev who also has dynamic languages experience can give me to me to help me make that shift faster?
I doubt there is any specific advice that can be given, other than that you must read a good book on C++ written by an authoritative author or authors - do not pick the first or cheapest one that comes your way. For a list of books see The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List - I personally would strongly recommend Accelerated C++ - it is written for people with programming experience, though not specifically for those coming from a dynamic language background.
Get the the books, and the tools (g++ or VC++)
In the transition from python to C++ I would recommend
learn the differences between duck typing and static types
learn the differences between the memory management of Python related to the memory management of c++.
When you know this good, you'll be able to write something without shooting yourself in the foot.
There are plenty of other different topics also, because of the multi paradigm nature of c++, but start with the basics and add to your repertoire as you need it.
My question is: Is learning C++ without learning C enough to program any kind of computer programs and get the computer to it`s maximum level (Full Control except the tasks that need Assembly language)?
Thank you
Yes, there is no point in learning C first if you want to learn C++. They are two different languages and learning C first is not a requirement.
Everything you can do in C you can do in C++ (probably in a safer way too)
I think the important question to ask is 'What do you want to do?'
There are many tasks and situations where neither C or C++ are exactly appropriate. They also present quite a steep learning curve and do not lend themselves to fast results.
If you are starting out I would recommend a simpler language such as Python (or even PHP for web stuff) but don't take my word for it and ask about - form your own opinion.
Knowing C is useful as it lets you know in greater depth what the computer is actually doing, but for the sake of productivity (and your sanity) it's probably best going with something a bit more high-level to start with.
This reminds me of the question "Should I learn driving with manual transmission (stick shift) to drive a truck or automatic transmission to drive a car". Different skill sets and usage really. With C you "think" procedurally. With C++ you "think" of Objects. Your entire program is structures differently. True, the "syntax" of C++ is a super-set of C but these are really two different languages. Because most C++ compilers also compile C code, there is a common misunderstanding that C++ is just an extension of C. This is only true about the syntax not the concept. For example, you use the same alphabet to write in English and French but the languages are very different.
I hope this helps.
C++ is a great place to start and yes, you can do everything with it. There's no advantage to learning C unless you are planning on working on platforms where it is particularly well suited, such as embedded electronics.
If you master C++ as a language and the OO concepts behind it you will have no difficulty picking up any other programming language. What's more you'll have a much better appreciation for memory management than you would get if you started with a slightly higher level language such as Java.
Good luck.
I think it all depends on the platform you wish to develop for.
If you want to develop applications on the Mac or iPhone you need to use the Cocoa and Cocoa Touch frameworks which are (mostly) written in Objective-C.
If you want to develop games for most consoles you need to use the native frameworks which are almost all written in C++.
I'm not sure what the Windows frameworks use, but I'd guess at C++.
The language you use is secondary to the frameworks you'll need to use for the platform you're developing for.
Yes, C++ is (pretty much) a superset of C
C++ is include all of C features and more other features like the support of OOP, so the answer is Yes you can.
it's different languages..
chose depending that you want to do...
Yes, you can start learning C++. Start with non-OOP part of C++, which is similar to C. Then you can move to the OOP part. Most of the books teaching C++ from ground up follow this approach.
me just learn c++ but
no problem in understanding c
c++ is much more supportive and safe than c.
although it is a puls puls version...
C++ is all that C is, and then more, so using C++ will not prevent you from doing anything with the computer that you can do in C (although it will in some cases prevent you from writing what in C would normally be an error in any case because C++ compilers use stronger type checking).
Now with respect to "Full Control"; there are some tasks that are the responsibility of the OS, and modern OS's will prevent you from having full control at user level (because processes have to play nicely together). Of course if you are coding for an embedded target, or writing a bootloader or OS, or a kernel mode driver, then you do have full control; and that is why C and C++ are used predominantly for such tasks because they are intrinsically systems-level languages.
I think any language is just medium of expressing one's logic, the main thing is your logic which needs to be perfect. First of all you must understand what are the features that could be explored in C++ that are not available in C.
C is known for its simplicity. If you start learning C, you will very well understand that how crisp and clear this language is. However, it is not a compulsion that you should learn C first and then C++; Its just a recommendation.
Learning C first is like playing level 1 of a game, where C++ is level 2 :-)
Having said that you can always play level 2 directly and can equally succeed in that, but with a little difficulty. :-)
I started by learning C++ and it was fine.
However it wouldn't hurt to have a browse through C before diving into C++. Loosely speaking C is a subset and you will learn the fundamentals there. C++ tends to have some tricky topics to grasp so you'll be safer by having strong foundations.
If you are starting programming, I would say start with C. It will give many basics and will let you think in a more low-level way than starting C++. You do not need to be the boss in C, just get the basics that will help in the future.
There is a nice article written by Joel Spolsky (joelonsoftware.com) that talks about how to start.
Since I have been mostly using script languages in the past time but now want to go to the "high-performance" level I decided to learn C++ some time ago.
I looked at some "beginner" tutorials and bought an O'reilly C++ pocket reference book (it's really helpful). My problem is that I now know all the basics but I'm not good enought to program a more complicated game, for example, yet.
Do I have to get one of those thick C++ books for further learning?
I'm going to use C++ on Windows mainly. What APIs beside Win32 are important for me?
My goal would be to write a small interpreter for a programming language I've though of - I managed that in several scripting languages already, what API/Library knowledge do I need in C++ to write one?
You don't need a thick book - you need a good one. Get Accelerated C++, written by Koenig & Moo, two of the original C++ development team.
Depends what you want to do.
You don't need anything - you can write a perfectly good interpreter or compiler using just the C++ Standard library. See this SO question for lots of info in this area.
Learn with books. C++ is a complex language. My suggestion is to first go with a rather quick introduction and general overview of the major programming paradigms that C++ supports: OOP and generic programming: Accelerated C++.
When you finish this book, you can go with the two volumes of Bruce Eckel's Thinking in C++ which are very detailed.
For UI programming, the best C++ toolkit is Qt, and it is multiplaform-ready. You can read "C++ GUI Programming With Qt4" (the first edition is free to download, just google it). If you want to stick with C++/Windows API, learn the Windows Template Library, altough it may be a bit hard due to lack of official documentation (altough there are good tutorials on the net). WTL is the way to go to create very small, lightweight applications (Qt DLLs on the other side, need a few MBs each).
I have always found that learning a language from a book is pretty difficult and that after you know the basics you should begin to program. So instead of picking up a thick manual I would check out something like http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html#advanced or just google for c++ tutorial and something that you would like to try to make.
A good (and) thin book to get started in C++ is Accelerated C++ by Koenig and Moo.
I mainly do programming under Linux, but I hear a lot of bad things about MFC, so I'd try to find a different GUI library.
Once you get up to speed with some of the more complicated parts of C++ syntax, have a look at the Boost.Spirit libraries for parser generation. The various Boost libraries provide some very useful extensions to the Standard Library.
Honestly, In learning C++ i never picked up a book (no flaming please). The best advice i can give is to go to this page and go through the tutorial. It covers the majority of the C++ language (read: most commonly used features) and keeps it as simple as possible. As far as APIs that are important... well that is a matter of preference. No one toolkit/api has really "won", but Qt, GTK-- (gtkmm), and wxWidgets are all big players. And besides GUIs, you'll probably want to learn either the raw winsock2 and threading APIs OR the boost library's threading and network interfaces. I do agree that MFC is dying, and for windows-only development C# is taking an increasingly large role (even on linux/mono C# is starting to catch on... slowly).
Also, the best way to learn a language is to code. So don't just read a whole ton- without practical experience you're never going to learn the language. Ask questions, answer those you can, and write tutorials- for yourself if nobody else. Writing down what you've learned is a great reference, and the process of straightening everything out in your head to write it down in a fashion that another person can understand it alone is a great way to reinforce concepts. In a strange, but seemingly backwards, way I found the best way I learn programming is by helping other people with their questions.
#Neil- i disagree that online tutorials are "flat out wrong". If anything, the style they teach you might be geared towards readability rather than optimization- which in-my-not-so-humble-opinion is an advantage. In my limited experience I've found cplusplus.com a go-to reference for pretty much everything.
Specifically, to answer your questions:
1. No thick book needed. I've heard that the thinner ones can be useful as a quick reference, though.
It's completely subjective and depends on your goal. Boost's network and multithreading libraries are probably a good start.
between std::string, std::stringstream, and getline(std::istream&, std::string&) you should be pretty good. C++ comes with a whole ton of built-in functionality yet isn't too bloated/huge/impossible to learn. Take advantage of it. All of the parsing is built in already.
Please, for Pete's sake, don't use directly use the Win32 API. You'll be painting yourself in the Microsoft corner. There are plenty of cross-platform libraries out there you can use instead:
Standard C++ library: strings, file i/o, containers, algorithms
Boost for the everyday stuff they left out of the standard library: parsing, networking, threading, smart pointers, memory pools, date/time, matrices, etc... Boost libraries are peer-reviewed before being accepted and are high-quality. Boost is the breeding ground for libraries that eventually become part of the next C++ standard.
GUI Toolkits: Qt and wxWidgets are very mature and widely used. There are many more.
For C++ on windows, definitely learn Microsoft Foundation Classes (MFC). Without MFC, you have to implmenet all of the windows API stuff yourself, which is more C than C++ and can be quite a pain.
You also may want to get, learn, and use the boost C++ libraries. They aren't windows specific, but they are a great resource for anyone.
I highly recommend Stroustrup's Intro C++ book. It covers C++ and STL in a very approachable way.
After that you might consider looking into books on Qt, a multi-platform GUI toolkit, or WTL or MFC for Windows. You could do .NET + C++, but that would be a lot to learn. In my experience with Qt and MFC, books have not helped much. Tampering with sample apps, building small apps just to test out one kind of feature, and poking around the docs was the only way I could get my head around either library. The books I had tended to simply gloss over too much--they were not worth the money.