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Let's say you have a company running a lot of C/C++, and you want to start planning migration to new technologies so you don't end up like COBOL companies 15 years ago.
For now, C/C++ runs more than fine and there is plenty dev on the market for it.
But you want to start thinking about it now, because given the huge running code base and the data sensitivity, you feel it can take 5-10 years to move to the next step without overloading the budget and the dev teams.
You have heard about D, starting to be quite mature, and Go, promising to be quite popular.
What would be your choice and why?
D and Go will probably just become as popular as Python and Ruby are today. They each fill a niche, and even though D was supposed to be a full-fledged replacement of C++, it probably will never acquire enough mass to push C++ away. Not to mention that they both aren't stable/mature enough, and it's unknown whether you'll have support for these languages in 10-20 years for the then-current hardware and operating systems. Considering that C/C++ is pretty much the compiled language and is used in the great majority of operating systems and native-code applications, it's very unlikely that it'll go away in the foreseeable future.
C and C++ are a pretty much unbeatable combo when it comes to native/unmanaged/"lowlevel" languages.
Not because they're the best languages, far from it, but because they're there, they do the job, and they're good enough. There's little doubt that D, for example, is better than C++ in most respects. But it fails in the most important one: Compatibility with all the existing C++ code. Without that requirement, most of that code would be written in a managed language today anyway. The only reason so many codebases use C++ today is because they used it last year, and it'd be too much of a pain to switch to something else. But if and when they switch, they typically don't switch to D. They switch to C# or Java or Python.
The problem for D and other "upcoming" languages competing for the same niches, is that while they're better, they're not groundbreaking enough to motivate people to actually switch to them.
So C and C++ are here to stay. C is unlikely to evolve much further. It is as it is, and one of the niches it has to fill is "simplicity, even for compiler writers". No other language is likely to beat it in that niche, even if they never revise the standard again.
C++ is evolving much more dramatically, with C++0x getting nearer, and they've already got a huge list of features they want to do afterwards. C++ isn't a dead end in any way.
Both languages are here to stay. Perhaps in 50 years other languages will have replaced them, but it won't happen this decade.
I currently use D regularly. I wouldn't recommend it yet for people writing production code because it's too bleeding edge. I get away with it because most of my code is research prototypes in bioinformatics. However, the language is starting to stabilize. Andrei Alexandrescu is releasing a book titled "The D Programming Language" next March, and right now there is a push to stabilize the spec for version 2 of the language in time for the book.
While D is not a formal superset of C, it is what I'd call an idiomatic superset except for the lack of a preprocessor. In other words, any code written in C proper (ignoring the preprocessor), can be trivially translated to D without a redesign, because C concepts like pointers and inline ASM are there and work the same in D as in C. D also supports direct linking to C code and the D standard library includes the entire C standard library.
Also, despite D's lack of libraries because it is still a bleeding edge language, it's a library writer's dream because of its metaprogramming capabilities. If it takes off, it will probably have some pretty impressive libs. For a preview of this, see std.range or std.algorithm in the D2 standard library (Phobos). As another example, I implemented an OpenMP-like parallelism model (parallel foreach, parallel map, parallel reduce, futures) as a pure library in D, without any special compiler support. (See http://cis.jhu.edu/~dsimcha/parallelFuture.html)
Given that you're mostly interested in the long term, I'd say give D 6 months to stabilize (given Andrei's book and the current push to stabilize the language, version 2 should be stable by then) and then take a hard look at it.
Edit: Now that the core language spec is relatively stable and the focus has turned to toolchain and library development, I would recommend D for small production projects unless you are in a very risk-averse environment. Larger projects that absolutely must have good toolchain and library support should still wait, though.
If you believe in the lean manufacturing principles, you should strive to "decide as late as possible". The moment should be the last responsible moment, meaning the moment at which failing to make a decision eliminates an important alternative.
I think this principle can be applied to your situation. Instead of committing now to a language (that you don't even know will be around in 10 years), you should keep your options open. Maybe refactor some of your code so it is a bit more generic or is built on more abstractions, so that when it is indeed required to migrate, the process will be easier.
Stick with C and C++. I don't see it going the way of COBOL, it runs as well as anything, and you'll have no problem finding people to code in C and C++.
C++ -- it is relatively young and updated... It has a big number of compiler vendors and got
improved all the time.
C -- it would live for a long time filling the gap between assembler and higher level languages. It is also very simple and easy to implement language, so it would remain the
first language for various "strange" architectures like embedded or extremely new ones.
D is promising but still very new and unstable specifications and libraries.
Go was born few weeks ago... Never use anything of version 0 for big important projects. Also it is significantly more limited the C++ or D.
2019 update: C++ will stay around for the next 10 years... (if not, I will correct this answer, when it will not be relevant any more....)
the reason companies works with COBOL today is b/c they already have millions of COBOL code written. if the could throw it - they will do it at once, on the other hand - companies work with C/C++ as part of their needs and new projects using this language b/c they can't / don't want to use java/c# any other framework based language - so COBOL is not the analogy here.
Like dsimcha said the D way is currently risky. Yet the language has a huge potential, it is low-level and i've experienced drastically better productivity with D (instead of C++). Perhaps what people feel with dynamic languages.
Go is so much blog-marketed it seems like a joke to me.
Dispatching an interface method is not trivial, and actually slower than dispatching a regular single-inheritance method.
If you'd have a huge codebase the decision is of course more difficult, I would advise only to switch for new projects, not for existing ones.
I wouldn't concentrate on a language but more on the libraries surrounding it. C++ in combination with the boost libraries are an excellent choice. People who develop in C++ tend to have a better understanding of computing, I myself started of with Java which made my life easier by hiding a lot of fundamental stuff, which is good, however I only really started to understand programming once I learned C/C++ (pointers etc).
I do recognise that C++ can be hard (e.g. memory management) so I think it's good to have a 'add on' language where performance is not essential and readability (==maintainability) scores high: I recommend Python for this.
There are countless machines running C++ software, I don't see them shutting down all at once. If C++ will go in the way of COBOL there will be a huge market for application migration. There will be specialized tools developed to translate C++ applications to the popular language of the time (Z++ ???).
So I guess the best advice is to cross that bridge when you come to it.
Check out Intel® Cilk++ Software Development Kit if you want to spark your interest in C++/Multi-Core development. I don't see C or C++ going away anytime soon either.
Comparing C* to Cobol is questionable
Comparing C* to Cobol may lead to the wrong conclusion. C was perfect for its day, a huge leap forward on its introduction, and it still gets the job done today.
I would sum up Cobol on my most charitable day with "nice try".
C and C++ will survive for a long time because they fit the bill well as implementation languages. This won't ever really change.
Also, consider that the main negative issue with C/C++ is the lack of memory safety. This tends to be less and less of a problem as codes mature. This means there will not be a serious reason to replace the old codes.
I expect that software systems will grow outwards from C. Look at the hierarchy today:
application written in a framework such as Rails
application back-end written in Ruby, PHP, Python, C#, whatever
Ruby, PHP, Python, or C# run-time implementation (written in C*)
OS kernel (written in C89)
I don't think the old layers will vanish, and I think legacy higher layers written in C and C++ will simply be supported that way for an indefinite period of time, eventually being phased out for their replacements written in Ruby, Python, C#, or a future development.
We have no idea if Go will find acceptance. Just being by Google is probably not going to be enough.
D? Well, some nice things are being said about it but it won't be taking off either. No user base to speak of. D is #20 in popularity on the TIOBE Index, and dropping fast.
You may say that a language's popularity has little to do with how well it's suited for your company's work. But it has a lot to do with how easy it will be to find people qualified to program in it.
Java is on top and I would be surprised if it went far away in the next 20 years. It's not considered a systems programming language but performs well enough that there are few tasks you'd do in C++ that you couldn't in Java. Certainly these days nobody is willing to task human programmers with the job done (flawlessly and often more effectively) by the garbage collector. I for one considered Java a significant step up from C++ in terms of programming effectivity.
I'm quite impressed by Ruby. It's an elegant, expressive language: You can accomplish a lot with not too much code, yet that code is still mostly legible. One of Ruby's main principles is to be consistent and not hold surprises for the developer. This is an extremely good idea, IMO, and boosts productivity. At the time of the big Rails hype (which may still be ongoing), I made a wide berth around Ruby because its reference implementation is abysmally slow. However, the JRuby folks at Sun have made it blazingly fast on a JVM, so now it's definitely worth some consideration. Ruby provides closures and a good handful of functional programming capabilities (see below for why this important), though it's not really considered a FP language. TIOBE index: 10 and rising.
Something to consider for the future is the fact that CPU makers have run up against a performance limit imposed by physics. No longer is there a 30% faster CPU available every Christmas, as it was in the past. So now to get more performance you need more cores. Software development will need all the help it can get in supporting multi-core concurrent programming. C++ leaves you mostly alone with this, and Java's solutions are horrible by modern standards.
In view of this, there's a certain trend toward functional programming (which eliminates much of the hassle associated with concurrency) as well as languages with better concurrency support. Erlang was written specifically for this and for the ability to swap code in a running program (Ericsson wanted incredible uptimes). Scala is similar to Java but with much stronger support for functional programming and concurrency. Clojure, ditto, but it's a Lisp and it's not even in the top 50 (yet!!).
Scala was developed academics, and shows it: It's sophisticated and downright pedantic about data types; it tries to be the Swiss Army Knife of programming languages. I believe a lot of medium-smart programmers will have trouble getting a grip on Scala. Ruby is less FP and doesn't do so much about concurrency, but it's pragmatic, and fun and easy to get stuff done in. Also, running on the JVM, there is an enormous amount of code readily available in Java libraries, which Ruby can interface with. So:
My bet would be on Ruby, with an outside chance on Scala. But there are plenty of alternatives!
Java. For most low level things Java is fine these days. Why go with a partial solution to C/C++ such as D or Go when you can have something as safe and easy to develop with as Java? If you are looking for a real time solution, D and Go are definitely not it, not to mention they are probably even less supported than Java.
Java is now a system programming language. I don't see how you can consider anything with unsafe constructs such as pointers "next gen". The only reason those insecure constructs ever existed is because it was the pragmatic approach to building a turing complete language. There was no concern of representing the memory in discrete objects, because they just wanted to build something that worked. There are already hard and soft realtime applications in Java, a variety of hardware bytecode processors, and over 2 billion mobile devices running Java. At most all you would have to do is add some constructs for interoperability with devices, which wouldn't be that much code; even in C/C++ you'd still have to add these constructs...
What are you programming? 8-bit microcontrollers with 1KB ram? In that case, it would be pointless to use anything other than the assembler for that platform...
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Which sector of software industry uses C++?
C++ was for many years the holy grail of mission critical high performance development. However, it seems that for the past 10 years like much of the development world has moved to Java and C#. My quesiton is this, is C++ effectively relegated to embedded systems, OS, Browser and other special purpose development? Should I let this skillset go the way of the VB 6 and other skillsets that are no longer showing the same level of demand and value in the market? I love C++ and would love to update my knowledge in it, but I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to apply it to common business problems today.
Regards.
First of all, I doubt anybody can give a definitive answer -- there's just no way to tell exactly how much any particular language is really used. Nearly anything you can measure is a secondary measurement, such as how many people are advertising jobs using that language. The problem is that this tends to show relatively new languages as dominating to a much greater degree than is real.
That said, my belief is as follows. At one time, C++ was the hot new language on the block, and there was a bubble when it dominated the market. That bubble deflated quite a while ago. Since then, use of C++ has been growing on an absolute basis, but the market has been growing (quite a bit) faster so its shrinking on a relative basis.
There are a couple of reasons this doesn't show up in most secondary measures such as job advertisements though. A couple of the obvious ones include:
Many teams producing C++ have now had years to "settle in", so the turnover rate is relatively low.
It's now well established where it's used, so positions tend to be filled by internal promotions.
There's another effect I almost hesitate to mention, but it's true no matter how little a lot of people like it: there are both programmers and managers who are more excited about "new" than effective. This leads to a large group of wannabes who are constantly on the move to the latest and greatest "technology" (whether that happens to be a language, framework, platform, or whatever). They get a job, loaf (or worse, actually write some code), then move on to their next victim...er...employer. They cause a lot of "churn", and inflate the number of job advertisements, but produce little or nothing of any real value. That group moved from C++ to Java a long time ago, and have long since moved from Java to C# to Ruby on Rails to Hadoop to whatever the managers are excited about this week.
Lest I sound excessively negative, I should add that along the way, a few of them really find something they're good at, and (mostly) tend to stay with that. Unfortunately, for every one who does, there are at least five more new graduates to join the throng...
"C++ effectively relegated to embedded systems, OS, Browser"
"other special purpose development"
You mean 99% of the code people run on a daily basis?
C++ is still heavily used in many mission critical financial applications. For example, most of Bloomberg's platforms are based on C++ with very little front end in other languages. Many investment banks and hedge funds use algorithmic trading systems written completely in C++ (e.g., Tower Research Capital, Knight Capital, etc.).
If you've been out of C++ for a while, you may need to get used to a whole bunch of now-standard libraries. When I was doing most of my C++, STL was fairly new and you either adopted the Microsoft libs or did not. If I went back to C++ now, I'll have to learn all the new libraries to be effective.
I think most of the movement to other languages is related to web development and web-centric development. The main exception to that would be Google, which still primarily use C++ and Python.
C++ is still valuable for many high performance apps. There are other technologies, and depends on the situation different languages are better suited for your needs. But if you want strong performance, good control of what your code is doing, and flexible networking and programming stack, C++ is still a good choice.
A better suggestion is: let the problems come to you and find the language that best suites the situation, rather than take a language and go look for problems.
Still: if you know C++ well, you can learn/program in anything.
To this day, C++ is the only language which is both object oriented and compiled (or at least, which has a mature ecosystem of optimizing compilers). Which leaves it as the sole choice for most large scale, compute-intense projects.
To me the prominent example is games and game engines - these are huuuuuge projects that squeeze machines for milisecond-fractions. MS is trying to get some traction for XNA (a managed game-dev framework - basically a DirectX wrapper ), but most probably would never get any for AAA game productions.
If I take a look at the applications I have installed on the laptop I am writing this message on, I see a lot of C/C++ and few (if any) managed apps. Examples? Google Chrome, Firefox, iTunes, uTorrent, Spotify, Picasa, Google Earth, OpenOffice, Notepad++, IrfanView... this list goes on and on. I write desktop applications for a living, which are installed on thousands of PCs worldwide, and C++ is still my language of choice. The lack of dependencies (WTL is your friend) is a massive plus IMHO (and that of my customers I should add!.) YMMV though - as a seasoned developer I think I am productive enough in C++, but I can't speak for everybody.
It hasn't gone away if you need to do something really, really fast. If "fast enough" is OK, then C# and Java are fine, but if you have a calculation that takes hours or days, or you need something to happen on the microsecond timescale (i.e. high frequency trading) C++ is still the language to use.
More often than not, we get lost in the hype cycle. First there was Java, then came PHP, and currently is Python. But the fact of the matter is development of general purpose desktop application still requires use of libraries like Carbon/Cocoa for mac, GTK/QT for Linux, MFC for Windows. All of which are C/C++ based. So are most applications written for these platforms. So calling C++ as being relegated to embedded is not right, although yeah its being extensively used now, unlike earlier when it was just assembly or C at the max. In my opinion, if you want a high performance application with great looking GUI, it still has to be done in C/C++.
Different languages are prevalent in different domains. It is interesting that you think it might be rendered unimportant by being relegated to embedded systems when in fact that is where most software development occurs; at least in terms of number of projects/products.
There are many ways of measuring, and a number of them are presented here: http://langpop.com/. The evidence suggests that C++ remains important.
I'm not sure whether the gaming industry falls under "general purpose development", but if you want to develop anything that you intend to get working on more than a single console, C++ is what's for lunch. While many gaming and 3D libraries have extensions for other languages, they -all- have extensions for C/C++.
C++ is still used everywhere you want the best performance. Its major advantage is that you can use literally for everything. In addition to what other people have said you can also use it to power websites, for instance OkCupid uses it almost exclusively.
As the recent Hip Hop of Facebook shows, in the end, if you can afford it (ie. you have a large and competent team) you can always gains something using it. Then it also a matter of scale, other than industry.
C++ is still very popular. For instance, combined with Qt it is often used.
C++ is usually used for systems work, generally defined as software where the UI is not central, not application work -- where the UI is central. So, for general business use it's probably not very interesting and those problems are better solved with a higher level language. However, there will always be low level systems work to be done, and C or C++ is the practical answer for those problems right now.
As a general development language? Well, it depends on your industry, but I've worked in two different industries and there is always plenty of C++ work:
Telecoms
Embedded devices often use C and C++ for core services
Network equipment, often very complex, heavily utilize C++
Software apps that work with hardware will often be written in C++
Financial Services
Trade Execution systems are often in C++. You cannot have your garbage collection kick in when you're executing an order for a customer.
Algorithmic and high-frequency trading systems are usually in C++
General trading systems that do not have strict speed requirements seem to be in C++ and Java, with C# starting to show up as well.
Administrative applications tends to be written in Java, VB, or C# these days
Recently there is a trend towards functional languages for quantitative analysis, so F# and Haskell are starting to appear, and SAS and Matlab are always common too
I read somewhere that Nyse/Euronext uses Java, but that they disable the garbage collector and run on servers with insane amounts of memory.
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Closed 9 years ago.
I'm thinking of trying to make some simple 2d games, but I've yet to choose a language. A lot of people recommend either C++ with SDL or python with pygame. I keep hearing that developement on C++ is fairly slow, and developement time with Python is fairly fast.
Anyways, could anyone elaborate on this? What exactly makes development in C++ so time consuming? The programs I've made have been Project Euler-style in that they're very short and math-based, so I have no experience in larger projects.
There are two things that are relevant between C++ and Python that will affect your time-to-develop any project including a game. There are the languages themselves and the libraries. I've played with the SDL to some extent and peeked at PyGame and for your specific instance I don't think the libraries are going to be much of a factor. So I'll focus on the languages themselves.
Python is a dynamically-typed, garbage-collected language. C++ is a statically-typed, non-garbage-collected language. What this means is that in C++ a lot of your development time will be spent managing memory and dealing with your type structure. This affords you a lot of power, but the question is do you really need it?
If you're looking to write a simple game with some basic graphics and some good gameplay, then I don't think you truly need all the power that C++ will give you. If you're looking to write something that will push the envelope, be the next A-list game, be the next MMO, fit on a console or a handheld device, then you will likely need the power that C++ affords.
The power of Python is in it's ability to allow you to focus more on the problem than having to deal with testing low-level issues such as memory allocation. I can't count how many times days of development have been wasted tracking down memory leaks in C or C++. An advantage of all high level languages.
Python is very easy to learn compared to C++,so you can be up to speed a lot quicker in doing basic programming tasks. Therefore, you'll move quicker into advanced tasks as well.
C++ has a lot of power but has many ways to shoot yourself in the foot compared to Python(not saying that can't be done in Python).
The compile/debug cycle can get old sometimes in C++ depending on what you're trying to do. Although technically speaking, everytime you run a Python script it's getting "compiled" per se, it's just a quicker cycle. A good IDE can help alleviate this is in Python by automatically checking your code for syntax errors while you type it out.
If you have some code you want to test inside a larger project, it's a hassle sometimes to isolate it for testing. Whereas a good Python interpreter such as IPython, makes it easy to test a small bit of code and see how the language behaves and paste it into a file.
Python also interfaces very well with existing C/C++ code through many numerous ways. That way if a new whizbang Python module you created is really slow, then you can soup it up in C/C++ then wrap it up with Python through ctypes, Boost::Python, or SWIG.
And most of all, Python comes with a great standard library that has a lot of stuff figured out for you. It's just a matter of putting the pieces altogether! It has a great community behind it, so if it's not in the standard library, there's a good chance someone out there has solved the problem (PyGame, Numpy, SciPy, Pyserial, PyWin, etc.) for you. You can just google it, grab it and plop the code right into your program...away you go!
I've heard these complaints before about C++, but the fact is, programming in any language with which you are unfamiliar is time consuming.
A good C++ programmer can probably crank out the app much faster than an okay Python programmer and visa versa.
I think C++ often gets a bad reputation because it allows you get much lower level - pointers, memory management, etc, and if you aren't used to thinking about such things, it can take a bit of time. If you are used to working in that environment, it can become second nature.
Unless choice of language is something imposed upon you by your company, team, client, etc. I usually recommend that folks go with the language they are most comfortable with OR most interested in learning more about. If speed is the issue you are concerned with, look at the learning curve for each language and your past experience. C++ tends to have a higher learning curve, but that too depends on the person.
Kindof a non-answer I know.
Python has some big advantages over programming languages like C++. I myself have programmed a lot with C++, C and other programming languages. Lately I am also programming in Python and I got to like it very much!
You can have a quick start with Python. Since it is rather simple to learn (at least with some programming experience and enough abstract thinking), you can have fast successes. Also the script-like behaviour makes starting easy and it is also possible, to quickly test some things in the integrated shell. This can also be good for debugging.
The whole language is packed with powerful features and it has a good and rather complete set of libraries.
There was the argument that with the "right library" you can develop as quickly with C++ as with Python. This might (partly) be, but I myself have never experienced it, because such libraries are rare. I had also a big library at hand, but still lacked many valuable features in C++. The so called "standard template library" STL makes things even worse in my opinion. It is a really powerful library. But it is also that complex, that it adds the complexity of an additional programming language to C++. I really disliked it and in a company I worked in, much worktime was lost, because the compiler was not able to give useful error-output in case of errors in the STL.
Python is different. Instead of putting the "speed of the programm" on the throne -- sacrificing all else (as C++ and especially the STL does) -- it puts "speed of development" first. The language gives you a powerful toolkit and it is accompanied by a huge library. When you need speed, you can also implement time critical things in C or C++ and call it from Python.
There is also at least one big online Game implemented in Python.
It's time consuming because in C++ you have to deal with more low-level tasks.
In Python you are free to focus on the development of the actual game instead of dealing with memory management etc.
there are many things that make c++ longer to develop in. Its lower level, has pointers, different libraries for different systems, the type system, and there are others I am sure I am missing.
It takes about the same amount of time to write the same code in pretty much all of the high level languages. The win is that in certain languages it is easier to use other peoples code. In a lot of Python/Ruby/Perl apps, you write 10% of the code and import libraries to do the other 90%. That is harder in C/C++ since the libraries have different interfaces and other incompatibilities.
C++ vs Python is a pretty personal choice. Personally I feel I lose more time with not having the C/Java class system (more run time errors/debugging time, don't have anywhere near as good auto completion, need to do more documentation and optimization) than I gain (not having to write interfaces/stub function and being able to worry less about memory managment). Other people feel the exact opposite.
In the end it probably depends on the type of game. If your processor intensive go to C++ (maybe with a scripting language if it makes sense). Otherwise use whatever language you prefer
I'd focus more on choosing a framework to build your game on than trying to pick a language. Unless the goal is to learn how games work inside and out, you're going to want to use a framework. Try out a couple, and pick the one that meets your requirements and feels nice to you.
Once you've picked the framework, the language choice becomes easy - use the language for which the framework is written.
There are many options for game frameworks in C++ - pygame works for python. There are many that work with other languages/tools as well (including .NET, Lua, etc.)
Short Answer
Yes python is faster in terms of development time. There are many case studies in real life that show this. However, you don't want to do a 3d graphics engine in Python.
Do you have any programming experience at all? If not, I would start with Python which is easier to learn, even if it is not a better tool for game development. If you decide you want to program games for living, you'll probably need to switch to C++ at some point.
Note that SDL is currently slow, because it basically doesn't use hardware acceleration.
SFML is an alternative of choice, and is available in Python too.
Why limit yourself to those two options? With C# or Java you get access to a huge collection of useful libraries plus garbage collection and (in the case of C#) JIT compiling.
Furthermore, you're saying that you're looking to do game development, but from your task description it sounds like you're also looking at coding your own engine. Is that part of the exercise? Otherwise you should definitely take a look at the available Indie engines out there - lots are cheap of not free and open source.
Needless to say, working from an existing engine is definitely faster than going from scratch :)
Some people would argue that development time is slower in C++ when compared to Python.
Wouldn't it be the case that the time you saved in developing an application (or game) in python is the time you gonna use in improving performance after its developed? and in the later part when you have least options left?
It largely depends upon the purpose for which you are going to develop the application.
If you are thinking for an enterprise application in which case it is going to be hit by millions (web-app) or an application with focus on low-footprint, faster loading into memory, faster execution, then your choice is C++.
If you are projecting your application for not being use at this level, surely Python is the choice to go for.
Maintainability is considerable, but disciplined code can overcome this.
Largely depends upon long term projections. On how serious and critical the application is going to be.
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I have tried to keep up with C++ since they introduced 1998 ANSI/ISO C++. I absorbed the new concepts and tried to understand them. I learned about exception handling, templates, and namespaces. I've read about the new cast mechanisms and worked with the STL library.
All of these concepts required a lot of energy. But now I am somewhat worried about the future of C++ when having a look at the new C++0x standard.
Things are getting more and more complicated. This language is becoming a monster.
I'm not sure that I want to keep up with the language anymore, since I don't do my day-to-day hacking in C++ anyway. I mostly use interpreted or bytecode languages.
So why should I bother to learn this difficult, yet exceptionally powerful, language? I can do 95% of my business with Python et al. With the remaining 5%, I can deal with plain old C++ or C without hassle.
What do you think?
Everyone uses a subset of C++. For almost all application programming in C++, whether server or client side, that subset is manageable. In my opinion, the only folks that need to stay on top of absolutely every nuance of the language are the library writers -- people implementing Boost, STL, Loki, etc.
But I would absolutely use the language that fits the task. If Python is more readable and more maintainable than C++ for your job, and you don't need what C++ offers, then certainly stick with Python.
Hear what Bruce Eckel { author of the two of the so-called best C++ books } commented on C++ a few weeks ago:
That said, I hardly ever use C++
anymore. When I do, it's either
examining legacy code, or to write
performance-critical sections,
typically as small as possible to be
called from other code (my preferred
approach is to quickly write an app in
Python, then profile it and if
necessary improve performance by
calling small portions of C++ using
Python's ctypes library).
Because I was on the C++ Standards
Committee, I saw these decisions being
made. They were all extremely
carefully considered, far more so than
many of the decisions made in Java.
However, as people have rightly
pointed out, the resulting language
was complicated and painful to use and
full of weird rules that I forget as
soon as I'm away from it for a little
while -- and I figured out those rules
from first principles while I wrote
books, not just by memorizing them.
Additionally, you should read this thread and Danny Kalev's predictions on C++.
However, the growing complexity of C++ will create pressure towards splitting the language into quasi-official dialects. We can already see this trend today; it will probably intensify in the future.
EDIT:
You should take a look at this discussion, too:
C++ - Anyone else feel like C++ is getting too complicated?
First, many features of C++0x are to make the language easier to use. More readable template compile errors, more consistent initialization syntax, support for threading, which would otherwise have to rely on platform-specific libraries and so on.
So if you do use C++, I feel learning the important parts of C++0x should be a manageable task. Remember that you don't need to learn all the new features to use the language. Some features are primarily added as an aid for library implementers, for example allowing the STL to be implemented more efficiently, but which shouldn't really affect the end-users usage of the language. And some are only really necessary in very rare cases. Ignore those parts of the language.
One of their stated goals with C++0x is to avoid it becoming harder to use.
But apart from that, do you need C++? If you do your coding in other languages, why bother keeping up with C++?
You're not forced to use every feature a language provides. I don't use setjmp/longjmp in C despite it being there. I also don't use every aspect of the Java collections.
If you think the new features will make your code delivery better (faster or higher quality or both), then use them. Otherwise ignore them.
It's useful to know at a high level what they all are, if only to get you through job interviews, but half the stuff they add to languages are unnecessary in my opinion.
I never even got around to using C++ templates before switching to Java, but I knew what they were for.
It's not always about learning the latest and greatest. Software (at least at your job) is about delivery of product. That can be done in COBOL or FORTRAN if you're proficient enough at it.
No one, except maybe Bjarne and Herb Sutter, know all of C++. As you've said it's an incredibly huge language. Expecting to be able to take the entire standard + the specific implementation details of your specific compiler or compilers is truthfully unrealistic.
But you don't need to know everything in order to use C++. Instead only learn the subset of C++ that is valuable to you and your projects. It doesn't hurt to keep expanding your knowledge but unless you're writing a C++ compiler, there's no reason to know the whole thing. Even if you accomplish it, all of the people you work with won't.
So why should I bother to learn this
difficult, yet exceptionally powerful,
language? I can do 95% of my business
with python et al. With the remaining
5%, I can deal with plain old C++ or C
without hassle.
Well, for the most part you answer your own question. There is no need for you to keep up with the bleeding edge of C++ at this time.
However, the language will keep marching on. In a few years, some of the concepts you consider a bleeding-edge waste of time today will be in common use. Someday you may find during your 5% of using "plain-old C++" that some example code or code you're collaborating on uses a construct you're not familiar with. At that point, you'll need to hit the net and brush up on the new "current" C++.
Is that going to be a problem? Of course not. You're a programmer. You keep abreast of the latest programming concepts in the context of your 95% language, which also changes over time. You will likely already be quite familiar with the concepts and need only familiarize yourself with its C++ syntax when the time comes that you must use them.
Personally I hope to continue keeping up with C++, even if my career moves more toward Java or another next-gen language. Why? I would like to say because it interests me the most and because I love the complexity and expressiveness of it all. More likely, though, is just because it was my first professional language; I consider it my "native tongue".
If it does not interest you, and does not concern your job or future job, don't bother. What's wrong with that? Nothing.
Good answers.
Computer makers compete for buyers, software competes for your disk space, and languages compete for users. They do this by trying to snag each other's features.
I'm wondering how long before we see Fortran come out with lambda expressions :-)
I am hard-pressed to find a single instance where C++0x has been made more complex than C++98. There are two things which really are complex:
Concepts.
the Memory Model
but the first one has been removed again (thankfully; standardizing unimplemented features has never worked out in C++, witness throw specifications, extern templates, auto_ptr, ...), and the second isn't really something that a modern programming language can escape. It's been externally induced by Intel & Co helpfully breaking your programs to make them run faster.
The rest is just fixing annoyances that every C++ programmer has been frequently hitting in the last decades.
As a side note: I find it ... amusing ... to see how languages such as C# get packed with a database query language (LINQ) and C++ is objurgated as being bloated.
You don't need to know every standard that comes out by heart. It does help to know about the big picture though. The 5% that you do code in may have you reinvent the occasional wheel. Depending on how much time, importance that 5% has (think Pareto) you need to take a call.
Also, any particular reason (like legacy code dependency) why you can't move that 5% to python?
First try attending a course on c++0x and make your firm pay for that :)
Our brains can fit amazing amounts of junk-knowledge. Instead of cursing and having programmer-wtf-moments we should first learn from program users and listen to other people's opinions/knowhows. Knowledge transfers much faster that way.
My suggestion would be to learn the new keywords of c++0x ( && FTW) but not bother trying to learn the entire lib. Use python for w/e you want, possibly C# for apps, then use C++(0x) when you need to do something powerful. and ask stackoverflow & google about the new container when prototyping.
You dont need to use a select few language,
I'm a programmer with 2 years experience, I worked in 4 places and I really think of myself as a confident, and fluent developer.
Most of my colleagues have CS degrees, and I don't really feel any difference! However, to keep up my mind on the same stream with these guys, I studied C (read beginning C from novice to professional), DataStructures with C, and also OOP with C++.
I have a reasonable understanding of pointers, memory management, and I also attended a scholarship which C, DataStructures, and C++ were a part of it.
I want to note that my familiarity with C and C++ does not exceed reading some pages, and executing some demos; I haven't worked on any project using C or C++.
Lately a friend of mine advised me to learn C, and C++ extensively, and then move to OpenGL and learn about graphics programming. He said that the insights I may gain by learning these topics will really help me throughout my entire life as a programmer.
PS: I work as a full-time developer mostly working on ASP.NET applications using C#.
Recommendations?
For practical advancement:
From a practical sense, pick a language that suites the domain you want to work in.
There is no need to learn C nor C++ for most programming spaces. You can be a perfectly competent programmer without writing a line of code in those languages.
If however you are not happy working in the exact field you are in now, you can learn C or C++ so that you may find a lower level programming job.
Helping you be a better programmer:
You can learn a lot from learning multiple languages though. So it is always good to broaden your horizons that way.
If you want more experience in another language, and have not tried it yet, I would recommend to learn a functional programming language such as Scheme, Lisp, or Haskell.
First, having a degree has nothing to do with knowing C++. I know several people who graduated from CS without ever writing more than 50 lines of C/C++. CS is not about programming (in the same sense that surgery is not about knives), and it certainly isn't about individual languages. A CS degree requires you to poke your nose into several different languages, on your way to somewhere else. CS teaches the underlying concepts, an understanding of compilers, operating systems, the hardware your code is running on, algorithms and data structures and many other fascinating subjects. But it doesn't teach programming. Whatever programming experience a CS graduate has is almost incidental. It's something he picked up on the fly, or because of a personal interest in programming.
Second, let's be clear that it's very possible to have a successful programming career without knowing C++. In fact, I'd expect that most programmers fall into this category. So you certainly don't need to learn C++.
That leaves two possible reasons to learn C++:
Self-improvement
Changing career track
#2 is simple. If you want to transition to a field where C++ is the dominant language, learning it would obviously be a good idea. You mentioned graphics programming as an example, and if you want to do that for a living, learning C++ will probably be a good idea. (however, I don't think it's a particularly good suggestion for "insights that will help throughout your live as a programmer". There are other fields that are much more generally applicable. Learning graphics programming will teach you graphics programming, and not much else.)
That leaves #1, which is a bit more interesting. Will you become a better programmer simply by knowing C++? Perhaps, but not as much as some may think. There are several useful things that C++ may teach you, but there also seems to be a fair bit of superstition about it: it's low-level and has pointers, so by learning C++, you will achieve enlightenment.
If you want to understand what goes on under the hood, C or C++ will be helpful, sure, but you could cut out the middle man and just go directly into learning about compilers. That'd give you an even better idea. Supplement that with some basic information on how CPU's work, and a bit about operating systems as well, and you've learned all the underlying stuff much better than you would from C++.
However, some things I believe are worth picking up from C++, in no particular order:
(several of them are likely to make you despair at C#, which, despite adopting a lot of brilliant features, is still missing out some that to a C++ programmer seems blindingly obvious)
Paranoia: Becoming good at C++ implies becoming a bit of a language lawyer. The language leaves a lot of things undefined or unspecified, so a good C++ programmer is paranoid. "The code I just wrote looks ok, and it seems to be have ok when I run it - but is it well-defined by the standard? Will it break tomorrow, on his computer, or when I compile with an updated compiler? I have to check the standard". That's less necessary in other languages, but it may still be a healthy experience to carry with you. Sometimes, the compiler doesn't have the final word.
RAII: C++ has pioneered a pretty clever way to deal with resource management (including the dreaded memory management). Create an object on the stack, which in its constructor acquires the resource in question (database connection, chunk of memory, a file, a network socket or whatever else), and in its destructor ensures that this resource is released. This simple mechanism means that you virtually never write new/delete in your top level code, it is always hidden inside constructors or destructors. And because destructors are guaranteed to execute when the object goes out of scope, even if an exception is thrown, your resource is guaranteed to be released. No memory leaks, no unclosed database connections. C# doesn't directly support this, but being familiar with the technique sometimes lets you see a way to emulate it in C#, in the cases where it's useful. (Obviously memory management isn't a concern, but ensuring that database connections are released quickly might still be)
Generic programming, templates, the STL and metaprogramming: The C++ standard library (or the part of it commonly known as the STL) is a pretty interesting example of library design. In some ways, it is lightyears ahead of .NET or Java's class libraries, although LINQ has patched up some of the worst shortcomings of .NET. Learning about it might give you some useful insights into clever ways to work with sequences or sets of data. It also has a strong flavor of functional programming, which is always nice to poke around with. It's implemented in terms of templates, which are another remarkable feature of C++, and template metaprogramming may be beneficial to learn about as well. Not because it is directly applicable to many other languages, but because it might give you some ideas for writing more generic code in other languages as well.
Straightforward mapping to hardware: C++ isn't necessarily a low level language. But most of its abstractions have been modelled so that they can be implemented to map directly to common hardware features. That means it might help provide a good understanding of the "magic" that occurs between your managed .net code and the CPU at the other end. How is the CLR implemented, what do the heap and stack actually mean, and so on.
p/invoke: Let's face it, sometimes, .NET doesn't offer the functionality you need. You have to call some unmanaged code. And then it's useful to actually know the language you might be using. (if you can get around it with just a single pinvoke call, you only need to be able to read C function signatures on MSDN so you know which arguments to pass, but sometimes, it may be preferable to write your own C++ wrapper, and call into that instead.
I don't know if you should learn C++. There are valid reasons why doing so may make you a better programmer, but then again, there are plenty of other things you could spend your time on that would also make you a better programmer. The choice is yours. :)
Experience is the best teacher.
While you can read about things like memory management, data structures (and their implementations), algorithms, etc., you won't really get it until you've had a chance to put it in to practice. While I don't know if it's truly necessary to use C or C++ to learn these things I would put some effort into actually writing some code that manages its own memory and implements some common data structures. I think you'll learn things that will help you to understand your code better; to know what's really going on under the hood, so to speak. I would also recommend reading up on computer organization and operating systems, computer security, and boolean logic. On the other hand, I've never really found a need to do any OpenGL programming, though I did do some X Windows stuff once upon a time.
Having degree has got nothing to do with C/C++ actually. Now, stuff like big O() estimation, data structures or even mathematical background. For example linear algebra results very useful, even in context that seemingly have nothing to do (eg. search engines).
For example typical error that a good coder, but without any theoretical knowledge, might commit is to try to solve NP-complete problems by exact algorithm, rather than approximation.
Now, why in universities they teach you C/C++? Because it let's you see how it's all working "under the hood". You get opportunity to see how call stack works, how memory management works, how pointers work. Of course you don't need that knowledge to use most modern languages. But you need that to understand how their "magic" works. Eg. you can't understand how GC works, if you got no idea about pointers and memory allocation.
I've often asked this question (to myself). I think the more general version is, "how can I call myself a programmer if I don't know how to kick around a language that doesn't have automatic garbage collection, with pointers and all that 'complex' stuff'?" I've never learned C++ except to do a few HelloWorlds, so my answer is limited by that lack:
I think that the feeling that you need to learn C++ (or assembler, really) comes from the feeling that you're always working on someone else's abstractions: the "rocket scientists" who write the JVM, CLR, whatever. So if you can get to a lower level language, you'll really know what you're talking about. I think this is quite wrong. One is always building on a set of abstractions: even Assembler is translated into binary, which can be learned as well. And beyond that, you still couldn't make a computer out of firewood, even if you had a pair of pliers and a bit of titanium.
In my experience as a corporate trainer in software dev (in Java, mostly), the best people were not those who knew C++, but rather those that took the language that they are working in as an independent space for "play." Although memory management comes up all the time in C# and Java, you never have to think about anything beyond freeing your object from references (and a few other cliche places, like using streams instead of throwing around huge objects in memory). Pointers and all that stuff do not help you there, except as a right of passage (and a good one, I'm sure).
So in summary, work in the language you're in and branch out into as many relevant things as possible. These days I find myself dipping into Javascript though the APIs are supposed to make this unecessary, and doing some stuff in Fireworks while I mess with CSS by hand. And this is all in addition to the development I'm really doing in RoR, PHP and Actionscript. So my point is: focus on abstractions that you need, because they're more likely to be relevant than the lower-level stuff that underlies your platform.
Edit: I made some slight changes in response to jalf's comments, thanks.
I have a 1st class Software Engineering degree and work for a large console manufacturer developing a game engine in a team of programmers all of whom program across a wide range of languages from Asm to C++ to C# to LUA and know the hardware inside out.
I would say that 5% of my degree was useful and that by far and away the most important trait to furthering my career has been enthusiam and self development.
In fact many of the colleagues I've worked with haven't had a degree and on average have probably been the better ones.
I'd say this is because they've had to replace that piece of paper from a university degree with actual working code that they've developed in thier own spare time learning the skills off thier own back rather than being spoon fed it.
My driving instructor use to tell me that I would only start learning how to drive after I pass my test ie you only really learn from the practical application of the basics. A CS degree gives you the basics which if you've had a job programming any of the major languages for 6 months you will already have. A degree just opens up doors that you may not have otherwise - it doesn't help that much once inside the door.
Knowing how the software interacts with the hardware by the sounds of it is the most important area for you at the moment only then does the 'mystery' or 'magic' really disappear and you can be confident of what your talking about else where. Learning C and C++ will undoubtedbly help in this respect as will knowing an API like OpenGL.
But I'd say the most important thing is to find something you have interest in and code that. If you have real enthusiam for it you will naturally learn more low level information and become a better programmer, if indeed that is what your definition of being a better programmer is!
I've been working as a developer with no degree for almost 15 years now. I started with Ada and moved quickly into C/C++, but it's been my experience that there will always be some language that you "have to learn." If it's not C++, it will be C# or C or Java or Lisp. My advice is make sure you're solid on the basics that apply to any language(my best friend as a dev with no degree was the CLR book), and you should be able to move relatively easily between languages and frameworks.
You don't absolutely have to learn C/C++, but both languages will teach you to think about how your software interacts with the underlying OS and hardware, which is a essential skill. You say that you already know about pointers, memory management and so on, which is great. Many programmers without a CS degree lack this important knowledge.
Another good reason to learn C/C++ is that there's a lot of code written in these languages and a good way to learn more about programming is to read other people's code. If you're interested in writing low level code like drivers, OS, file systems and the like C/C++ is pretty much the only way to go.
Do you have to learn it extensively? I expect not.
However it's best to always be learning things that help you look at programming from a different perspective. Learning C or C++ are worth it for the insight into how things work at a lower level. For C and C++ programmers the same thing might be accomplished by learning assembly. Most people won't use assembly in a project, but knowing how it works can be very helpful from time to time.
My recommendation is always to learn as much as you can. If you're not working on a C++ project in the near future I wouldn't be too worried about learning the ins and outs, but it's always good to be able to look at problems from another angle and learning new languages is one way to do that.
Today for the majority of applications, C and C++ can be viewed as an academic exercise: "How can we write programs without garbage collection?"
The answer is: you can, but it's a mostly painful experience. Most of the details of best practices in C++ are related to the lack of garbage collection.
Given the brilliant performance of modern GCs, and the general increase in computing power, even cell phones have GCs these days. And in a platform with a GC, you can always code in such a way as to limit the pressure you put on the GC.
Listen or read SO podcast 44, where Joel plays his favorite song Write in C
Spolsky: Yeah, it's not paying the proper royalties to the Beatles anyway. We'll link to that from the shownotes. Awesome song, Write in C.
Atwood: That's right, Joel's favourite song. Write everything in C, because Joel does in fact write everything in C, don't you, Joel?
Spolsky: I started using a little bit of C99, the latest version of C, which let you declare variables after you written some statements.
...
Without a professional reason (other than the good practice of self-improvement) to learn C or C++, then you should have a passionate side project planned out that you could write in C or C++. Once the going gets tough on the side project, you'll need your enthusiasm and curiosity to take you over the hump (since on a side project, you naturally don't have the motivation of pay or de-motivation of a superior looming over you).
Also, most CS degrees are using Java as their language of choice now. This just proves the point that experience gained in the language of choice and exposure to some of the theory involved in the other classes in the degree is the main benefit for people with CS degrees, and not so much the specific language (though I think the higher they go up the abstraction scale, the worse it is for the students in the long run).
Without a practical reason for learning a programming language it is pretty hard going.
If you can think of particular problems or a specific task which the language is suit for - Then the learning experience is driven by needs, rather than simple academics.
I only just recently switched from VB to C# (1 month ago) while not as significantly different as a switch from C# to C, because I switch for a particular reason I found it much easier to learn. I had dabbled previous without a specific problem to solve, needless to say I switched back
If you have a different style of learning as in self-taught then my recommendation to be a better programmer is to research topics regarding your domain. From bottom to top, slowly climb up the ladder.There is a fairly amount of different programmers, no one will excel in all, so don't start off with that context in mind.
Best of luck to you.
C++ is just a programming language. What you don't have that other students (if they paid attention in class) have is the deeper understanding that comes through studying concepts.
Being a programmer is not and should not be the end goal of any CS graduate. However it is as far as most people get without such a degree.
Here is an analogy: An engineer and an architect both at some point learn to draft buildings using CAD. Also, someone completely untrained can come in and start work using CAD and be very effective. This is a good career and it pays well, but for both the engineer and the architect it is not where you want to be when you are 30.
One value of knowing C is that many other languages including C#, Java, C++, JavaScript, Python, and PHP have their roots in C syntax.
Another value, and arguably more important, is that it will build your confidence. Programmers are a confident group and very optimistic (you have to be confident to think that you can write the equivalent of a 1000 page book without a single spelling or grammatical error). And confidence in your ability to learn and effectively use any language will grow considerably with a pure C application or two under your belt.
So write a non trivial program in C; something that at least reads and writes files, allocates and deallocates memory, and manages a data structure like a queue or binary tree.
Your confidence will thank you.
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Is anyone out there using D for real world applications? If so, what are you using it for? I can't seem to find anything big on the web written in D.
Despite the lack of known big users, D seems like a very promissing language to me, and according to TIOBE, it's fairly popular.
I do bioinformatics work in D. For me, the key thing about D is that it takes a very level-headed approach to tradeoffs and recognizes the principle of diminishing returns.
Unlike C++, which adheres rigorously to the zero-overhead principle, D allows features that may have a small performance/space cost if they make the language a lot more usable. These include garbage collection, a monitor object for each class, runtime type info, etc.
Unlike Ruby, Python, PHP, etc, D tries to be almost as fast as C, even if it is less dynamic and slightly more difficult to program in than scripting languages.
The result is a language that is optimal when both development time and execution time matter about equally, which in my field is most of the time.
Similarly, D takes a very level-headed approach to safety vs. flexibility. It assumes that programmers basically know what they're doing, but do make mistakes.
Unlike C and C++, it assumes that you don't want to use pointers, unsafe casts, manual memory management, etc, everywhere in your code, because they're error prone, and assumes that you don't want to sift through multi-page template error messages when you screw up just to use resizable arrays.
Unlike Java and other bondage-and-discipline languages, D assumes that sometimes pointers, unsafe casts, manual memory management, etc. are a necessary evil, and assumes you're smart enough to handle real templates, operator overloading, etc. without writing obfuscated code. It also assumes that you may screw up and access an array out of bounds, but that the programmer knows best what tradeoff should be made between safety and speed in any given situation. Therefore, whether arrays are bounds checked is simply determined by a compiler switch.
I'm using D for my research work in the area of computer graphics. I and others have had papers published in our fields based on work done using D. I think it's definitely ready for use on small to medium sized research projects where performance matters. It's a nice fit for research work because often you're starting from scratch anyway, so you don't have much legacy code to worry about integrating with.
Another popular area for use seems to be web services. Hopefully someone else can comment who's in this space, but there too I think the idea is that performance often really matters so you want a compiled-to-the-metal language. Services are often fairly small, self-contained processes, so interop with large amounts of legacy C++ code is not really necessary or useful. Thus D can get its foot in the door.
I think D will continue to gain grass-roots followers in this way -- on smaller projects that for whatever reason can afford to ditch the C++ legacy in order to gain a programming language that's much more enjoyable to use, and perhaps more productive too.
But until there's a huge number of grass-roots users there won't be much in the way of big corporate users I suspect.
I know of one smallish company that have sent a mail server product to the market. They had at least 2 people working full time on the project.
Also, a major player in the IT business have several employees using D in larger internal projects.
Further I know of one company seeking venture funding, several (at least 4) employees in smaller companies using D either part or full time, and at least a couple (including me) actively seeking opportunities in the consulting market.
I've probably left out a few that I should have known about, and probably some I haven't heard about, but that still exists, as the above is more or less those I know myself via the community.
A small percentage of my current income comes from D.
I use D for web development and it proved quite a lot more productive compared to C/C++.
There are a lot of frameworks based on ruby/php/python, of course.
But when you want to develop something unique that also have to be as fast as C and nearly as easy as to program with as you do in many script languages, then D is a good choice.
I use D for a hardware in the loop (HIL) test environment. This is for software tests in the automotive area. D can be used here, because as a system programming language it is possible to be used in real-time programs (IRQ handlers in a linux real-time extension RTAI-LXRT).
With the ongoing port of SWT/JFace I plan to do more and work in D which I would have been done in Java before.
Facebook announced that they are using it in production as of today.
I'm using D in research about compile time code translation. The advanced templating combined with tuples and mixins makes code translation much easier and allows for code translation to be done during compile time without requiring a separate tool.
There are some examples of physicists using D to enhance their programs with meta-programming in D.
video - Conference talk, could not find source site of physicist use.
Our whole (high-traffic) network infrastructure is based only on D1 and tango. We are a young startup company in Berlin: sociomantic.com
My current work task is a system to translate C# to D. This is as part of a for profit project to develop a software system.
Well, I have written a couple of research papers in D as have others.
http://www.digitalmars.com/pnews/read.php?server=news.digitalmars.com&group=digitalmars.D.announce&artnum=13337
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D.announce&article_id=9466.
It seems that Remedy Games has a large D2 codebase for their games (cf. Using D Alongside a Game Engine by Manu Evans - DConf 2013).
They are a big company, knowing that a big company is using D is very good.
A lot of the games released by ABA Games are written in D 1.x, though I imagine the console ports had to be rewritten in C++.
I've written quite a few game prototypes in D, but I'm not sure if that qualifies as 'real world' since I wrote them for my own benefit and have never released any of them.
I wrote (and I am still maintaining and developing) a software for the conversion of tester protocols from various hardware testing stations to a standardized output format for traceability and stuff like that.
All together over 5k lines of code, written with D 1.x and the Phobos library.
D is so easy to learn, and disregarding some pitfalls (in the Phobos library) a real joy to program.
I used D for my research project on developing a global optimization algorithm. I applied it to the problem of training neural networks. It's up to you whether you want to call this "real world".
I wrote a wrapper script that builds DGCC on OS X
http://github.com/davecheney/make-gdc-apple/tree/master
I'd love to hear from other DMD programmers out there
I use D2, the second standard of the version. I wrote real-time applications (3D engine, for instance).
The language gets more and more powerful each day. D is very pragmatic and all the embedded features, especially the metaprogramming paradigm, makes it far over C++, in my opinion. The syntax is clearer, you can use the strength of functional programming through functions such as filter or reduce, and one of the most important feature: you can use all the C libs.
Definitely my favourite language, and I’m pretty sure it will be a spread used language.
I suppose we can read something into the lack of immediate answers to this question and that is that not many/any of the acive stackoverflow responders are using D. I was also a little surprised about the level of its ranking in the TIOBE listing that you link to.
Having said that, Walter Bright has been working on the language for quite a number of years now and I think he has quite a number of `followers' who remember what a good job he did with the Zortech C++ compiler back in the '90s. I also note that the language appears to be leaning towards the functional direction now.
The D's official website enumerates the organizations that are currently using D.
http://dlang.org/orgs-using-d.html
The D wiki also provides a list of organizations, but it's outdated.
Just watch carefully DConf talks.
DConf 2013
DConf 2014
Almost all people there work for some company, and they use D at work.
I am starting a project to rewrite some of our internal tools from Perl to D. I chose D because I'm pretty excited about the design philosophies of the language. I've been programming for a long time and used a lot of languages, from assemblers to high-level (mostly C) to scripting languages (mostly Perl), and D is the first language I've been enthused about learning in many years.
I decided to move to a compiled language for one main reason - security. Functionally, Perl works quite well for the toolset I work on, but it's insecure - anyone that can run a script can also read, copy and create their own modified version of the tool. (And they do.) I know there are circuitous methods to get around this problem (sort of), but to be honest I don't have enough hours in the day to manage all of that and still get my primary job done.
I started a ray-traced renderer in D with ldmd2.
http://palaes.rudanium.org/SubSpace/render.php