I am developing a C++ application that needs to be multiple platform compatible (Windows/Linux) and want to grant users the ability to extend the software to fit their needs exactly without allowing them to change critical parts of the application (so I do not want them in the C++ code).
What I am looking for is to embed a scripting language (I would prefer Python because I am familiar with it already, but it's not mandatory), so scripts put in some plugin folder can manipulate objects of the application if I want these objects to be modifyable.
The most simple example: if someone wants to build their own UI for my application, they should be able to do so with such a script.
The problem however is, that I've never put C++ and any kind of external scripts together, so I really do not know how to start. After looking for material to get started, I found that Lua claims to be a good language to do that, but I could not find good beginner tutorials.
I would really appreciate if someone knew a good place to start, be it online resources, or a good book. I wouldn't mind spending a few bucks on a good book.
As a learner, I tend to learn best from a mix of example code and a few lines explaining those.
I would suggest you to read Programming in Lua, this book has an entire section on how to embed Lua in C (and C++).
It is very highly rated by Amazon users.
The language has also pretty good online documentation and a active mailing list.
If you want to use Python I would definitely suggest using Boost.Python. It is an incredibly well designed library. Just an example: all you have to do to expose a C++ class to Python is this:
struct World
{
void set(std::string msg) { this->msg = msg; }
std::string greet() { return msg; }
std::string msg;
};
BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE(hello)
{
class_<World>("World")
.def("greet", &World::greet)
.def("set", &World::set)
;
}
It handles almost everything automatically: conversions between types, exceptions, it even allows you to use reference counted objects between the two languages with boost::shared_ptr.
The article here at linux journal is a good place to start on how to embed a python interpreter in your c/c++ code. This is only half the battle however because when the interpreter is embedded, you then need to publish some part of your software to the scripting environment. The basic API to do so is in C and if most of your code is C++, it might be best to use boost::python since writing C wrappers around your C++ classes might be cumbersome. You can also use Py++ to generate the boost::python binding.
If you only want to use scripting as a door to customization and you can live with the memory footprint of python, it might be a better choice than Lua. Lua is usually good for small environment like game development. There is also a lot more python developers than lua developers as well as more built-ins and third party libraries available.
for Python, I guess the boost library is meant to do it. As for Lua, I haven't used it myself, but a quick Google search first led me to debian admin and then to Lua's C interface. Have you looked into those?
Related
My question is a little bit stupid but I decided to ask advanced programmers like some of you. So I want to make a "dynamic" C++ program. My idea is to compile it and after compilation (maybe with scripting language like python) to change some how the code of the program. I know you will tell me that after the compilation I can not change the code but is there a way of doing that. Thank you!
You could design a modular architecture using plugins in external libraries. For example you could use the Command Pattern. That way you can dynamically load code that was generated after you main program. You would have to fix an interface though. Functions like GetProcAddress in the Windows api might be a good point to start.
For dynamic coding and rapid prototyping I recommend to have a look at Lua. The engine is very small and easy to integrate in your c++ program.
The only way to do that in C++ is to unload the DLL with the code to be
modified, modify the sources, invoke the compiler to regenerate the DLL,
and reload the DLL. It's very, very heavy weight, and it only works if
the compiler is present on the machines where the code is to be run.
(Usually the case under Unix, rarely the case with Windows.)
Interpreted languages like Python are considerably more dynamic; Python
has a built-in function to execute a string as Python code, for example.
If you need dynamically modifiable code, I'd suggest embedding Python in
your application, and using it for the dynamic parts.
Personally I have never played with re-compiling C++ during runtime, and I do not intend too. However I have been doing a lot of embedding of scripting languages lately.
Someone else mentioned the obvious first choice for embedding: Lua. Lua is a pretty popular language to embed and you will find a bunch of documentation about how to do it. Integrating it into the C++ will allow you to define behavior at runtime like you want.
What I am using is a wonderful langauge called Squirrel. It is a lot like Lua but with native object(class) support and C++-like syntax. I have managed to embed it into a C++ application, and through using the sqrat binding library both languages can share information easily.
I have squirrel building and initializing my UI. As a result, 0 compiling is required in order to craft and structure my UI for my game. I intend to take this a step further and use this gameplay-side in order to create similar behavior you are looking for(changing behavior at runtime through dynamic code usage)
I recommend Checking out squirrel here: http://www.squirrel-lang.org/
I plan on writing tutorials on how to embed squirrel and install the binding library, but I have not started on them yet. If I can remember, I will edit this post in the future (could be a few months) once I have completed them. In the meantime give it a shot yourself. You may find it to your liking.
I am not sure if the title of this question gets to the point. I have written a large software system in C C++ for Windows, and want to give the users of this system the option to add compiled code to it. The user should be able to do basic stuff, and exchange data with my program.
Currently the implemented way is via DLLs. But for this, a grown up compiler is needed, and it is not as easy as I wished. Is there a tiny C compiler that can create Windows DLLs?
Another idea is the Java native interface. But this requires a complete Java system to run in the background, and it is not easy to run code in it.
Do you have any other ideas?
Any interpreted language? (TCL and Lua were designed as extension languages, but you can nearly as easily interface with any other).
How about python integration?
You could create an python interface that interfaces with your application. Python is rather easy to learn and should integrate easily with c/c++. The python documentation has an own chapter on that.
You could also use a tool like swig to generate the interface.
The advantage of this is that they wouldn't have to compile anything. They could just supply python files that could be loaded into your application and run within the software. This is a well known use for python, and something its simple syntax promotes.
As the other says you will be best of by providing an embedded language.
I would chip in for javascript and use the google v8 engine
By using javascript you get a language nearly everbody can use and program in.
There is other javascript engines you can embed like SpiderMonkey.
See this answer for what to choose.
An interpreted language is not good enough. I need speed. The software itself is an interpreted language. So I added support for the tiny C compiler. It is only C, and I do check mingw, which probably would not be as tiny as this. Thanks for all your hints.
Added after several months:
I have now two tools, actually: TinyC and Python. The speed difference between those is noticable (factor 5-10), but that usually does not matter too much. Python is much easier for the user, though I managed to integrate both into the Euler GUI quite nicely.
One of the ways is to add scripting. You application can host scripting environment and expose its services there. Users would be able to execute JScript/VBScript scripts and interact with your application. The advantage is that with reasonable effort you can get the power of well known and well documented scripting languages into your application (I suppose there is even debugger for scripting there). You will be required to shape your app services as COM interfaces and scripts will be able to access them automatically using method names you assigned on C++ side.
C++, Win32 and Scripting: Quick way to add Scripting support to your applications
MSDN Entry Point - IActiveScript interface
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I'm getting a little rusty in scripting languages, provided they're popping like mushrooms lately :)
Today I thought that it would be nice to have a scripting language that talks seamlessly to C++, that is, could use C++ classes, and, the most important for me, could be compiled into C++ or some DLL/.SO (plus its .h) so that I could link it into my C++ program and make use of the classes the script defines or implements.
I know I could embed any popular scripting language such as lua, ruby, python... but the interface usually includes some kind of "eval" function that evaluates the provided scripting code. Depending on the tool used to couple C++ and the scripting language, the integration for callbacks of the script into C++ could be more or less easy to write, but I haven't seen any scripting language that actually allows me to write independent modules that are exposed as a .h and .so/dll to my program (maybe along the lines of a scripting language that generates C++ code).
Do you know any such tool/scripting language?
Thanks in advance.
PD. I've been thinking along the lines of Vala or Haskell's GHC. They generate C, but not C++...
UPDATE 2020: Today I would probably go with Lua + Sol2/3 except if I really want to avoid Lua as a language. Chaiscript becomes a good candidate in this case though it is not optimal performance-wise compared to Lua+Sol2/3 (though it was greatly improved through years so it is still good enough in many cases).
Falcon have been dead for some years, RIP.
The following ones are more C++ integration oriented than language bindings :
ChaiScript - trying at the moment in a little project, interesting, this one is MADE with C++ in mind and works by just including a header! Not sure if it's good for a big project yet but will see, try it to have some taste!
(not maintained anymore) Falcon - trying on a big project, excellent; it's not a "one include embed" as ChaiScript but it's because it's really flexible, and totally thought to be used in C++ (only C++ code in libs) - I've decided to stick with it for my biggest project that require a lot of scripting flexibility (comparable to ruby/python )
AngelScript - didn't try yet
GameMonkey - didn't try yet
Io - didn't try yet
For you, if you really want to write your scripting module in C++ and easily expose it to the scripting language, I would recommand going with Falcon. It's totally MADE in C++, all the modules/libraries are written that way.
The question usually asked in this context is: how do I expose my C++ classes so they can be instantiated from script? And the answer is often something like http://www.swig.org/
You're asking the opposite question and it sounds like you're complicating matters a bit. A scripting engine that produced .h files and .so files wouldn't really be a scripting engine - it would be a compiler! In which case you could use C++.
Scripting engines don't work like that. You pass them a script and some callbacks that provide a set of functions that can be called from the script, and the engine interprets the script.
Try lua: http://www.lua.org/
For using C++ classes in lua you can use:
To generate binding use tolua++: http://www.codenix.com/~tolua/
It takes a cleaned up header as input and outputs a c file that does the hard work. Easy, nice and a pleasure to work with.
For using Lua objects in C++ I'd take the approach of writing a generic Proxy object with methods like (field, setField, callMethod, methods, fields).
If you want a dll you could have the .lua as a resource (in Windows, I don't know what could be a suitable equivalent for Linux) and on your DllMain initialize your proxy object with the lua code.
The c++ code can then use the proxy object to call the lua code, with maybe a few introspection methods in the proxy to make this task easier.
You could just reuse the proxy object for every lua library you want to write, just changing the lua code provided to it.
This is slightly outside my area of expertise, but I'm willing to risk the downvotes. :-)
Boost::Python seems to be what you're looking for. It uses a bit of macro magic to do its stuff, but it does expose Python classes to C++ rather cleanly.
I'm the author of LikeMagic, a C++ binding library for the Io language. (I am not the author of Io.)
http://github.com/dennisferron/LikeMagic
One of my explicit goals with LikeMagic is complete and total C++ interoperability, in both directions. LikeMagic will marshal native Io types as C++ types (including converting between STL containers and Io's native List type) and it will represent C++ classes, methods, fields, and arrays within Io. You can even pass a block of Io code out of the Io environment and use it in C++ as a functor!!
Wrapping C++ types up for consumption in Io script is simple, quick and easy. Accessing script objects from C++ does require an "eval" function like you described, but the template based type conversion and marshaling makes it easy to access the result of executing a script string. And there is the aforementioned ability to turn Io block() objects into C++ functors.
Right now the project is still in the early stages, although it is fully operational. I still need to do things like document its build steps and dependencies, and it can only be built with gcc 4.4.1+ (not Microsoft Visual C++) because it uses C++0x features not yet supported in MSVC. However, it does fully support Linux and Windows, and a Mac port is planned.
Now the bad news: Making the scripts produce .h files and .so or .dll files callable from C++ would not only require a compiler (of a sort) but it would also have to be a JIT compiler. That's because (in many scripting languages, but most especially in Io) an object's methods and fields are not known until runtime - and in Io, methods can even be added and removed from live objects! At first I was going to say that the very fact that you're asking for this makes me wonder if perhaps you don't really understand what a dynamic language is. But I do believe in a way of design in which you first try to imagine the ideal or easiest possible way of doing something, and then work backwards from there to what is actually possible. And so I'll admit from an ease-of-use standpoint, what you describe sounds easier to use.
But while it's ideal, and just barely possible (using a script language with JIT compilation), it isn't very practical, so I'm still unsure if what you're asking for is what you really want. If the .h and .so/.dll files are JITted from the script, and the script changes, you'd need to recompile your C++ program to take advantage of the change! Doesn't that violate the main benefit of using script in the first place?
The only way it is practical would be if the interfaces defined the scripts do not change, and you just are making C++ wrappers for script functions. You'd end up having a lot of C++ functions like:
int get_foo() { return script.eval("get_foo()"); }
int get_bar() { return script.eval("get_bar()"); }
I will admit that's cleaner looking code from the point of view of the callers of the wrapper function. But if that's what you want, why not just use reflection in the scripting language and generate a .h file off of the method lists stored in the script objects? This kind of reflection can be easily done in Io. At some point I plan to integrate the OpenC++ source-to-source translator as a callable library from LikeMagic, which means you could even use a robust C++ code generator instead of writing out strings.
You can do this with Lua, but if you have a lot of classes you'll want a tool like SWIG or toLua++ to generate some of the glue code for you.
None of these tools will handle the unusual part of your problem, which is to have a .h file behind which is hidden a scripting language, and to have your C++ code call scripts without knowing that that are scripts. To accomplish this, you will have to do the following:
Write the glue code yourself. (For Lua, this is relatively easy, until you get into classes, whereupon it's not so easy, which is why tools like SWIG and toLua++ exist.)
Hide behind the interface some kind of global state of the scripting interpreter.
Supposing you have multiple .h files that each are implemented using scripts, you have to decide which ones share state in the scripting language and which ones use separate scripting states. (What you basically have is a VM for the scripting language, and the extremes are (a) all .h files use the same VM in common and (b) each .h file has its own separate, isolated VM. Other choices are more complicated.)
If you decide to do this yourself, writing the glue code to turn Lua tables into C++ classes (so that Lua code looks like C++ to the rest of the program) is fairly straightforward. Going in the other direction, where you wrap your C++ in Lua (so that C++ objects look to the scripts like Lua values) is a big pain in the ass.
No matter what you do, you have some work ahead of you.
Google's V8 engine is written in C++, I expect you might be able to integrate it into a project. They talk about doing that in this article.
Good question, I have often thought about this myself, but alas there is no easy solution to this kind of thing. If you are on Windows (I guess not), then you could achieve something like this by creating COM components in C++ and VB (considering that as a scripting language). The talking happens through COM interfaces, which is a nice way to interop between disparate languages. Same holds for .NET based languages which can interop between themselves.
I too am eager to know if something like this exists for C++, preferably open source.
You might check into embedding Guile (a scheme interpreter) or V8 (Google's javascript interpreter - used in Chrome - which is written in C++).
Try the Ring programming language
http://ring-lang.net
(1) Extension using the C/C++ languages
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ring/Lessons/Extension_using_the_C/C%2B%2B_languages
(2) Embedding Ring Interpreter in C/C++ Programs
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ring/Lessons/Embedding_Ring_Interpreter_in_C/C%2B%2B_Programs
(3) Code Generator for wrapping C/C++ Libraries
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ring/Lessons/Code_Generator_for_wrapping_C/C%2B%2B_Libraries
I recently started C++. I am using PHP right now and decided to take a look at C++. Web programming had me working with a couple of languages, with a couple of people. I wanted to do programming where I only had to bother with one language and create small utility apps (mostly not web-based). I wanted a compiled, strongly-type language without memorizing a tome of classes. Basically I wanted to learn C++ for the following:
mobile programming (I don't ever want to go touching Java, and I don't have a Mac for Objective C or IPhone SDK)
small desktop apps like DTRs, POSs
creating small desktop-based games
creating small Air-like applications that can access the web for additional content
I heard that C++ is not beginner-friendly and is mostly used for huge projects with lots of calculations and fine details (like 3D games). Is it practical or even possible for me to use C++ for the above cases? (Sorry, I haven't delved on C++ that much yet, so aside from "huge, monolithic project", I don't know any other uses for it)
You can certainly use C++ in all the areas you mention, though whether it is best of breed for any of them is open to debate. C++ is very large and complex language, and requires a fair bit of effort to get up to speed on. If I were you, I would pick one of the areas you mention that you are most interested in, and then find out which language(s) are best suited for that area and learn that.
If you are set on learning C++ you will need to read at least one book on it - you cannot learn it from internet resources alone. See this question The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List for a book list.
On the droid you can use other languages aside from Java - check out their ASE (Active Scripting Environment). C++ / C should really only be used when you have no other choice - i.e. speed critical code, operating systems etc. It's very easy to make a mistake that's difficult to diagnose and there are lots of task where it'll take way longer than it should to write and odds are others have already done so and done it way better - reinventing the wheel is bad. If it interests you though by all means learn and eventually you may master it. It's an excellent skill to have.
It's also not a completely object oriented language however, it's a hybrid one that supports most object oriented features, but some such as inheritance and polymorphism are a bit awkward to deal with in C++ - for example you have to define methods as virtual in base classes in order to be allowed to redefine them in subclasses - sort of like predicting the future - will this method every be desired to be redefined by an inheritor? Really what happens in that case is you make the base class method virtual later on to enable it to be redefinable - that is if you happen to have access to the source code to do just that - if not then oh well. For an example of this confusing stuff in C++ and other gotchas: Pitfalls
Look at other languages such as Ruby or Python - in particular Stackless Python where a combination of it and C++ (used where necessary) was used to create EVE Online as well as the functional languages such Erlang and Haskell.
For 2, 3 and 4, I recommend C# over C++, for the reasons I wrote here.
About 1, you can do iPhone development with .NET but I've never tried it and I don't know how viable it is.
Edit
To answer your actual question: yes, it's totally practical to write small and large desktop apps in C++. Especially if you use quality tools like Visual Studio and Qt. It's just that I think it'd waste a lot of your time for no reason, unless you intend to go into professional game development eventually.
I went to C++ from PHP like you, but I was more interested in 3D games and such. Now I have moved on to C# and find it much more enjoyable than C++.
As for your specific areas of interest however, C++ is certainly an option but C# may be better.
Mobile programming with C++ is probably not a good idea. I know it's possible with NDKs and such but for a beginner it's probably not so good. For iPhone development, other than the official SDK, the next best option is the (commercial) MonoTouch framework from Novell. However, you may still need a mac to deploy (I don't know). In terms of Android, if you don't want to touch Java (don't blame you) I believe a C# framework (similar to MonoTouch) is in development and other languages may be available. Other platforms? No idea.
Small desktop apps is also very possible with C++. Assuming you're running Windows, you can use the Win32 API (pain) or the C++/CLI API (better). You could also use a different GUI framework like Qt, wxWidgets or GTK+ which are all also supported on other platforms. Again coming back to C#, GUI development using GTK# in MonoDevelop is so much fun. Having used WinForms in Visual C# Express back in my Windows days, I can say that I now enjoy the process whereas I didn't before.
Games are my main area of interest and the reason I originally picked up C++. Seeing as you've said small and desktop-based, using C++ for performance reasons is way overkill IMO. You could make a decent, fun, playable game in Python using pygame without the pain of using a language like C++. In C# (yes, I'm trying to sell it to you) you could create awesome games using the XNA framework from Microsoft or other frameworks like (my personal favorite) OpenTK.
Rich internet applications. C++ is probably not the right tool to use here. It's certainly possible but seeing as C++ has no standard networking library, you would have to figure some of this stuff out yourself. C# may not be the right tool either but it makes it a little easier. There are other options as well (like Python) but it's not something I know much about.
Despite what I've said about it, I still think C++ is a good language to learn. It teaches you about lower-level things you never think about in PHP land. If you want to learn it, the book that really helped me was "C++: A beginners guide" by Herbert Schildt and also "Programming" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
Yes, your use cases can all be done with C++, more or less (YMMV on mobile devices).
To some degree or another, a language like C# will be more rapid to develop in, however.
In my opinion, once you get away from the straight-up form design features and hack for a while in a language & application, language feature comparisons begin to diminish in meaningfulness.
I recommend C++ as a first "heavyweight" language; see here for my most recent discussion on it.
I want to move various parts of my app into simple scripts, to allow people that do not have a strong knowledge of c++ to be able to edit and implement various features.
Because it's a real time app, I need to have some kind of multitasking for these scripts. Ideally I want it so that the c++ app calls a script function which then continues running (under the c++ thread) until either a pause point (Wait(x)), or it returns. In the case of it waiting the state needs to be saved ready for the script to be restarted the next time the app loops after the duration has expired.
The scripts also need to be able to call c++ class methods, ideally using the c++ classes rather than plain wrapper functions around c++ classes.
I don't want to spend a massive amount of time implementing this, so using an existing scripting language is preferred to writing my own. I heard that Python and Lua can be integrated into a c++ app, but I do not know how to do this to achieve my goals.
The scripts must be able to call c++ functions
The scripts must be able to "pause" when certain functions are called (eg. Wait), and be restarted again by the c++ thread
Needs to be fast -- this is for a real time app and there could potentially be a lot of scripts running.
I can probably roll the multitasking code fairly easily, provided the scripts can be saved and restarted (possibly by a different thread to the original).
You can use either Lua or Python. Lua is more "lightweight" than python. It's got a smaller memory footprint than python does and in our experience was easier to integrate (people's mileage on this point might vary). It can support a bunch of scripts running simultaneously. Lua, at least, supports stopping/starting threads in the manner you desire.
Boost.python is nice, but in my (limited) experience, it was difficult for us to get compiling for our different environments and was pretty heavyweight. It has (in my opinion) the disadvantage of requiring Boost. For some, that might not be a problem, but if you don't need Boost (or are not using it), you are introducing a ton of code to get Boost.python working. YMMV.
We have built Lua into apps on multiple platforms (win32, Xbox360 and PS3). I believe that it will work on x64. The suggestion to use Luabind is good. We wound up writing our own interface between the two and while not too complicated, having that glue code will save you a lot of time and perhaps aggravation.
With either solution though, debugging can be a pain. We currently have no good solution for debugging Lua scripts that are embedded into our app. Since we haven't used python in our apps I can't speak to what tools might be available there, but a couple of years ago the landscape was roughly the same -- poor debugging. Having scripting to extend functionality is nice, but bugs in the scripts can cause problems and might be difficult to locate.
The Lua code itself is kind of messy to work with if you need to make changes there. We have seen bugs in the Lua codebase itself that were hard to track down. I suspect that Boost::Python might have similar problems.
And with any scripting language, it's not necessarily a solution for "non-programmers" to extend functionality. It might seem like it, but you will likely wind up spending a fair amount of time either debugging scripts or even perhaps Lua.
That all said, we've been very happy with Lua and have shipped it in two games. We currently have no plans to move away from the language. All in all, we've found it better than other alternatives that were available a couple of years ago. Python (and IronPython) are other choices, but based on experience, they seem more heavy handed than Lua. I'd love to hear about other experiences there though.
I can highly recommend that you take a look at Luabind. It makes it very simple to integrate Lua in your C++ code and vice versa. It is also possible to expose whole C++ classes to be used in Lua.
Your best bet is to embed either lua (www.lua.org) or python (www.python.org). Both are used in the game industry and both access extern "C" functions relatively easily with lua having an edge here (because data types are easier to translate between lua and C). Interfacing to C++ objects will be a bit more work on your end, but you can look up how to do this on Google, or on lua or python discussion forums.
I hope that helps!
You can definitely do what you want with Python. Here are the docs on embedding Python into an application. I'm pretty sure Lua would work too, I'm just less familiar with it.
You're describing cooperative multi-tasking, where the script needs to call a Break or Wait function periodically. Perhaps a better solution would be to run the scripting language in its own thread, and then use mutexes or lock-free queues for the interfaces between the scripting language and the rest of your program. That way a buggy script that doesn't call Break() often enough can't accidentally freeze your program.
Take a look at the Boost.Python library. It looks like it should be fairly straightforward to do what you want.
Take a look at SWIG. I've used it to interface with Python, but it supports many other languages.
One more vote for Lua. It's small, it's fast, it doesnt consume much memory (for games your best bet is to allocate big buffer at the initialization and re-direct all Lua memory allocations there). We used tolua to generate bindings, but there are other options, most of them much smaller/easier to use (IMO) than boost.python.
As for debugging Lua (if you go that route), I have been using DeCoda, and it has not been bad. It pretends to be an IDE, but sorta fails at that, but you can attach The debugging process to visual studio, and go down the call stack at break points. Very handy for Tracking down that bug.
You can also embed C/C++ scripts using Ch. I've been using it for a game project I'm working on, and it does well. Nice blend of power and adaptability.